What to do with R32 GTST RB20DET to get it into the low 12s in the 1/4 mile (400m)

[RBsileighty]

Anyway, i'll have a head-to-head rb20det and sr20det comparison in a few weeks. A mate and I both have 180sx's with hks2530's, 3" dump/front, apexi n1 catbacks, fmic, ebc, upgraded injectors, larger fuel pumps, stock internals, etc and both will be tuned at the same boost (probably by the same person) so i'll put up the torque and power figures for interests sake.

I can't wait to see this comparison! This is something I have wanted to see for a long time. Are the 2530's the same trim?

[neil_se]

Yes, afaik the 2530s only came with one available spec.

[jmp]

Let's ask Meggala what he thinks of the RB20 vs SR20?

[Sydneykid]

Hi Jazz, Australian SR20DET's as in S14 and S15 make 256 nm according to Nissan. They are the most common SR's here, so I used Nissans official number. The fact that the JDM SR's produce 274 nm's proves my point. That it's Nissan's choice and is more a factor of tuning, airflow and boost pressure than any inherent SR advantage. Think about it the other way around, if Nissan can get an extra 18 nm's from tuning an SR (with the same basic configuration) , why shouldn't I be able to get an extra 18 nm's tuning an RB?

Hi Dog, as per above, the question is not whether SR20's make more torque standard. The question is which will make more horsepower when modified. Because of its RPM advantage, if all other things are equal, an RB20 will always win. In fact the same applies to a CA, if all other things are equal, a CA will produce more horsepower than SR.

Hi Neil, there is definitely at least 2 specs of 2530, one with a T3 flange and one with a T28 flange. Note that SR's come with a T28 flange and RB's come with a T3 flange. Consequently I don't see how you can do a meaningful comparison since it would mean using different turbos or an exhaust manifold adaptor. Either way the results will be contaminated by other factors.

If you guys think an SR has a basic configuration advantage, then tell me how is it that an SR20DE (N/A) makes 179 nm's and an RB20DE (N/A) makes 190 nm's?

Interesting thread, huh?

[omg]

Nah, your lack of understanding about the very basics of SR's renders it pretty much useless. The fact you can't even get basic engine specs correct (eg, nissan claimed 265Nm for the local DET and the torque numbers for the SR20DE range from the 179Nm in the pulsar out to 213Nm for the hottest of the factory engines) reduces the thread to such a farcical level that there isn't much point discussing the more technical aspects of the engine. I'm sure you know your RB's but you clearly are utterly clueless when it comes to SR's. It could be an interesting discussion but the way you distort the facts so completely makes it an utter waste of time.

To answer the original poster, the quickest S15 in the country running an unopened engine (rocker cover never removed) and a completely standard turbo is in the high 11's. Food for thought I guess.

[TTT]

I'm just adding to this post so that I can get an alert when an update is made.

Now that OMG has joined in on this, I am happy to just sit back and learn.

OMG - I've read a few of your inputs on the silvia forums and it's always insightful. You obviously know your SR's back to front, inside out and perhaps from other UN-discovered angles.

Sydkid - you're the same with your RB series so it's always interesting..

Lets keep our ego's and emotions out of it and have a decent informative thread here..

You know what would be good, to be in the same room/workshop with OMG and Sydkid having a chat about these engines..

I'm in!!

[omg]

Feh, when people start using language like "spindly rocker arms" and "inherrant flaws" in the valvetrain you know the discussion is going to have very little technical information and consist mostly of recyling tired old myths. Add to that the fact that this is a Skyline board so any RB/SR discussion will be seen as an attack it really is a waste of time going into any detail. I'm always happy to talk engines and answer questions about the SR but with the direction this thread has taken already I reckon it's best left to die.

[TTT]

Well it is just an opinion.. I guess from personal experience..

I'm sure there are certain things that you could put down about the RB20 apart from the lower torque figure in standard form which most amatures state..

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of both engines and just try to absorb all that I can.

[neil_se]

Think about it the other way around, if Nissan can get an extra 18 nm's from tuning an SR (with the same basic configuration) , why shouldn't I be able to get an extra 18 nm's tuning an RB?

I don't think Nissan Japan got 18nm more, rather Aus got 18nm less. You'd have to compare both power figures as quoted Jap spec. I quick search i just did found the general consensus on jap-spec figures is 153kw@6000, 274nm@4800 for the red-top s13 sr20det, and 160kw@6400, 263nm@3200 for the silvertop r32 rb20det. Piss all difference i would agree, especially once you start modding.

fact the same applies to a CA, if all other things are equal, a CA will produce more horsepower than SR.

Maybe if you're talking about a stroked ca, but i fail to see how a ca with the same upgrades as an sr is going to produce more horsepower than an sr that has more displacement, torque, and less lag. A quick eg. 2 mates both have silvias, one with sr and one with ca. Both have stock injectors, upgraded fuel pumps, small fmics, t28bb turbos. The sr makes 171kw@11psi, the ca 165kw@14psi.

Hi Neil, there is definitely at least 2 specs of 2530, one with a T3 flange and one with a T28 flange. Note that SR's come with a T28 flange and RB's come with a T3 flange. Consequently I don't see how you can do a meaningful comparison since it would mean using different turbos or an exhaust manifold adaptor. Either way the results will be contaminated by other factors.

The flange doesn't change the turbo specs. The 2530 isn't like the 2835 and others that has multiple combinations, all 2530 have the same wheel sizes, 0.64 A/R, etc irrespective of the flange. Therefore i think the results would be be better for comparing the engines rather than comparing stock figures because the rb20det has a t28 sized bb turbo and the sr20det has a smaller t25g giving the rb better power figures to start with.

[dog_mongrel]

lol

yeah i reckon we get meggala in here aswell, i was thinkin that b4

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

i rekon a briggs and stratton 187cc with a 192cc piston and rod, and 5.2mm lift cam from a 202cc briggs will own you all!!!

back to a comment made earlier the very fastest unopened s15 in the country is running high elevens, what are the rest of them doin 13s ( i dont really know but this is my point).. that was useless as it adds nothing to the question asked, a one off occurence.... thats like saying the most powerfull totally stock rb26 in oz was marios with 444rwkw.. whopty sh.t it lasted a week then blew a hole in the engine!!! id say go with r32 they are better for quick times due to inherent chassis geometry and the stiffness of the rear end, if you want drift go s13 s14 or s14 due to the tail happy chassis set up which isnt fantastic for drag as they bog down alot more than a r32 will (stock for stock). both great cars in my experience with vl's with rb20's and datts with sr20's you can always get more power out of the rb20 due to, as pre mentioned, the revs... mate my advise would be drive both and work out what you like as the cars are both awesome in there own right and both can do what you are asking of them!

[rbs13]

going mod for mod.. the car with the biggest/longest power band would be quicker wouldnt it.. it seems to me going by what everyone says - SR swallows more air with its longer strokes and spools up turbo's quikcer so the sr could bring a same sized turbo on earlier.. but the rb would rev to 8k.. so where does that leave us?

buy the one that sounds better :D:D:D:D

[neil_se]

Yes, but wouldn't the earlier peak torque of the rb aid turbo spooling?

Another short note from a post on NS, Danny from JMS's "Pink Bits" project car is making 363rwkw from stock sr20det internals apart from a head gasket. Crazy stuff...

[dog_mongrel]

lets just face it, they are all good engines

[red17]

Ive seen some seriously large HP SR20's knocking around, not many RB20's. Perhaps this is more a sign of the SR being a much more prolific motor in terms of numbers. But the SR is certainly not inherently flawed as some seem to think it is.

Ive driven both my RB20 GTSt with about 220rwhp and my brothers 180SX with similar horsepower from the SR20DET powerplant. I find both to be completely different to drive, but the SR for me is more fun. Note i said, "FOR ME".

But its all subjective isnt it? This thread is laced with personal opinions and prejudices.

[Sydneykid]

Let me see omg, what have I said about SR's that's wrong;

I posted 179 nm, that's correct, even you admit that a standard version of the SR20DE makes 179 nm. So I am right, it's a fact and I have distorted nothing.

I never said that 179 nm was the highest torque from an SR20DE, so I am right again, no fact distortion there.

I posted 256 nm for the S14 and S15 Australian delivered, I checked the recognition papers from Nissan and guess what I'm right again.

It is widely known that the rockers arms on SR20's are a serious handicap, are you denying that?

Want to get into valve spring rate and coil bind height, both problems due to valve train inertia at high rpm, want to dispute that fact?

Want to get technical, go right ahead. Would you like to discuss the rod/stroke ratio on a SR? Far from ideal I would say, what about you? And that valve angle, definitely an issue wouldn't you say?

Next time you want to call someone's post "farcical" I suggest you line up your facts, because I never post anything I can't back up.

[b0neR]

w00t, SydneyKid 1/Omg 0

[omg]

"I posted 179 nm, that's correct, even you admit that a standard version of the SR20DE makes 179 nm. So I am right, it's a fact and I have distorted nothing."

In isolation it might be justifiable but when you pluck the lowest number for one engine and the highest for another, don't mention that there are different versions available and use that as a basis of comparison you have distorted the facts.

"I posted 256 nm for the S14 and S15 Australian delivered, I checked the recognition papers from Nissan and guess what I'm right again."

The number you are looking for is 265 so I'd say either you're lying about checking or you're dyslexic. Normally I'd suggest a trip to the doctor but I suspect in this case that won't be required at all

"It is widely known that the rockers arms on SR20's are a serious handicap, are you denying that?"

It appears to be widely known amognst people who drive skylines that the rocker arms are an issue, amognst people who build and drive SR's it's widely known that it's the hydraulic lash adjuster that is the problem. Maybe you could provide the list of parts required by the SR to allow it to rev which cost more than a stroker kit for the CA? Yeah, farcical indeed.

"Next time you want to call someone's post "farcical" I suggest you line up your facts, because I never post anything I can't back up."

I'm comfortable with my facts, that you are also comfortable with yours I suspect is more a reflection on your character than anything to do with the facts at hand.

Like I've said, I've no desire to get into an SR vs RB war on a skyline forum (or any forum for that matter) as it serves no real purpose but to create divisions between car enthusiasts. I'm sure you know your RB's Sydneykid but based on what you've posted in this thread you know piss all about SR's.

[DCIEVE]

why not discuss facts rather than making it personal? you both know alot, enlighten us

[RB20LagWagon]

Hey SST-Steve wheres the info of this 11.9 second _RB20_ powered gtst?