Datalogit And Wideband

[Room42]

So I got the wideband in a couple of days ago and its working. Did some tuning with the hand controller and was fairly happy. Today I got the datalogit and chucked it in. Went for a couple of runs and noticed that the afr on the pfc and the one shown on the wideband gauge isn't the same number. So my question is...Do ya fix this with the watertemp correction or is there a properer way to do it?

[89CAL]

Do you mean in your INJ map when you set it to "AF Ratio" in the bottom right? So that it shows up AFR's in the map?

This is just approximate AFR's, Use your wideband to determine your actual AFR's, the AF Ratio on the map is just an estimated AFR

[Room42]

Do you mean in your INJ map when you set it to "AF Ratio" in the bottom right? So that it shows up AFR's in the map?

This is just approximate AFR's, Use your wideband to determine your actual AFR's, the AF Ratio on the map is just an estimated AFR

Yeah that's what I was referring to. I guess I can extrapolate a halfway decent fuel map by using it anyway. Any thoughts on what is a good afr for light loads and a good one for medium? After playing around today for half an hour I've got it at around 15.5 light, 13.5 medium and 11.5ish heavy. It starts surging at about 16.5 light but 15.5 seems ok. Also I read that the datalogit can read the afr from the wideband to log it. How good does this feature work and how accurate is it given that the previously discussed map values are only approximate?

[89CAL]

I wouldn't worry about using the AFR's in the INJ map at all. Ignore them and just leave it on correction.

Does your wideband have an analog out? If so you can plug this into the datalogit AN1 and AN2 if it's got a ground for the analog out then go into settings somewhere and activate delta an1 an2 or whatever (sorry I'm on my iPhone and can't remember exactally where to go)

Then you can bring up your AFR's in map watch (have to change the voltage in relation to AFR in settings)

Once again I'm sorry about the info being a bit scetchy, iPhone isn't the best for typing lol

[farch]

your seeing the difference because the afr on the pfc is worked out using engine sensors (i.e. the oxygen sensors) the power-fc also estimates using the oxy sensors so it isn't as accurate as a wideband. the wide-band has cat convertor and exhaust mufflers and a lot more time for the continued chemical reaction before exhaust gases get to the wide-band. true air-fuel should be done at the exhaust ports, but good luck doing that outside a car manufacture. still you can get really good results doing it with a wide-band, tuners have been doing it for years. trust the wide-band. can you really get a wideband that can be plugged in to the datalogit, that's awesome. who needs a tuner!

[89CAL]

your seeing the difference because the afr on the pfc is worked out using engine sensors (i.e. the oxygen sensors) the power-fc also estimates using the oxy sensors so it isn't as accurate as a wideband. the wide-band has cat convertor and exhaust mufflers and a lot more time for the continued chemical reaction before exhaust gases get to the wide-band. true air-fuel should be done at the exhaust ports, but good luck doing that outside a car manufacture. still you can get really good results doing it with a wide-band, tuners have been doing it for years. trust the wide-band. can you really get a wideband that can be plugged in to the datalogit, that's awesome. who needs a tuner!

2 things

The AFR on INJ map has nothing to do with any inputs from the O2 sensor (AFAIK Anyway) it is just pre programmed as what is expected with that amount of fuel injected

2ndly FC Edit does not support closed loop tuning so still need to tune it

[Duncan]

2 things

The AFR on INJ map has nothing to do with any inputs from the O2 sensor (AFAIK Anyway) it is just pre programmed as what is expected with that amount of fuel injected

yes exactly...it is not based on actual inputs from the car, it is just what the computer *thinks* it will get with the fuel it is putting in.

you can adjust it to be pretty much correct by comparing the target AFR to actual AFR on the dyno, just adjust the air flow meter curve.

but not much point really...

[farch]

the power-fc manual I've seen, says that it uses the oxygen sensors to modify the air-fuel ratio to achieve the target in the injection map. it does give a correction value but the power-fc will modify the correction if it moves and change the inj pulse width correction till it matches the map again. you should deactivate oxy feedback when tuning. your right in saying that it displays what the map says it should be. an example is if you were running nitrous. nitrous is an oxygenated molecule when you run it in a car the bulk of the oxygen that the engine uses for combustion comes from the fuel not the air intake, which several is times faster in reaction time, which why the same principle is used in explosives. you can't map for oxygen that no sensor other than the oxy sensor will see. which is why it must modify the correction values instead. in a perfect would it will never need it but with fuel stations putting all kinds of stuff in fuel to make it cheaper, it can come in handy.

[Room42]

Yeah the wideband has two programmable outs. One for the gauge and one for whatever else. They are both analogue. They can be setup to work on diesel, methanol etc. At the moment there is one going to the gauge that is from 0 to 5 volts and one going to the pfc that is emulating a narrow band. I guess this is necessary for the pfc O2 feedback. It actually works too, keeping it at 14.7 give or take. I spose I can just disconnect the gauge and run that into the datalogit. The missus is getting pretty good at being a tuning co pilot Between the wideband and the datalogit I have about 300 pages of pdf to read so I'll get into it and see how I get on Oh the sensor is in the stock location btw.

[STATUS]

your AFM voltage table needs to be properly adjusted to make the afr values in the main table accurate. Once set correctly you can tune the main table easily by simply imputing the desired target afr. Not at all necessary but handy.

[JonnoHR31]

theres a guide on the innovate website for hooking it up to datalogit, can use the same guide for whatever wideband you have. but whatever you do make sure the afr values showing in datalogit are the same as the ones showing in the widebands program before you do any tuning, when i first hooked myne up (accoridng to the guide) it was out by a fair bit.

as for the afr values in the fuel map, ignore them for the most part, as said they're a rough guess at best without adjusting the afm curve to suit.

[Room42]

your AFM voltage table needs to be properly adjusted to make the afr values in the main table accurate. Once set correctly you can tune the main table easily by simply imputing the desired target afr. Not at all necessary but handy.

Thanks mate that's gold. It'll give me something to think about. I put in 3 different blocks of afr's in the fuel map this evening and tuned it via the low and high load water temp correction. I did the idle with the inj map. Maybe I'm doing it wrong??? but it seems to be working so far. Got 14.7 at idle, 16 light 13 medium and 11.5 high load. It went better at 11.5 than 12.

[sucram]

your AFM voltage table needs to be properly adjusted to make the afr values in the main table accurate. Once set correctly you can tune the main table easily by simply imputing the desired target afr. Not at all necessary but handy.

theres a guide on the innovate website for hooking it up to datalogit, can use the same guide for whatever wideband you have. but whatever you do make sure the afr values showing in datalogit are the same as the ones showing in the widebands program before you do any tuning, when i first hooked myne up (accoridng to the guide) it was out by a fair bit.

as for the afr values in the fuel map, ignore them for the most part, as said they're a rough guess at best without adjusting the afm curve to suit.

what these guys said

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/application_notes.php

[Beer Baron]

the power-fc manual I've seen, says that it uses the oxygen sensors to modify the air-fuel ratio to achieve the target in the injection map. it does give a correction value but the power-fc will modify the correction if it moves and change the inj pulse width correction till it matches the map again. you should deactivate oxy feedback when tuning. your right in saying that it displays what the map says it should be. an example is if you were running nitrous. nitrous is an oxygenated molecule when you run it in a car the bulk of the oxygen that the engine uses for combustion comes from the fuel not the air intake, which several is times faster in reaction time, which why the same principle is used in explosives. you can't map for oxygen that no sensor other than the oxy sensor will see. which is why it must modify the correction values instead. in a perfect would it will never need it but with fuel stations putting all kinds of stuff in fuel to make it cheaper, it can come in handy.

mate it uses the cars factory narrow band sensors for closed loop adjustment under cruise conditions only. for power tuning (and everywhere on the map that is not light load/low tps cruise condition) it does not have ANY closed loop functionality. yes you can connect your WB02 to the datalogit and log and display AFRs against the maps in datalogit. people have been doing this for at least 10 years. it's how pretty much everyone tunes a power FC.

[Room42]

I got the wideband talking to the datalogit before. I got a real afr map and made a change to the fuel map and had progress. Its just a matter of time and driving up the road and back till its perfecto. One thing tho... a couple of times the datalogit has stopped responding and I have had to unplug it from my pc and reopen the program etc. Also when it is doing this the car wont start. It cranks and fires a bit and runs to 500 rpm then dies. A couple of times it has started with difficulty. I unplugged the datalogit from the power fc and the car started fine. Anyone seen this before? It only seems to do it when its not at operating temp completely and high revs.

[JonnoHR31]

thats weird, datalogit shouldnt be making the car run shit. checked and re checked all the connections?

[Room42]

Firstly everything is soldered but I found one thing wrong with it. The usb connection in the laptop was a bit rooted so I started using a different port and it is alright now. Sometimes the car takes too long to crank. It did seem to start better with the datalogit unplugged and also seemed better with the hand controller unplugged from the datalogit. Still... I've left the cranking ms the same as stock. I spose I should give it about 60% less ms to make it the same amount of fuel as the stock injectors. (Old=370cc and new=900cc) That wouldn't be taken into account when you set up the injectors would it??? Well I'm taking the commodore to work tomorrow so I'll play with the r33 after work and see how I get on. I'm already wayyy past my petrol budget this week for the skyline! oh here's a laugh... I put my foot on the brake and floored it when I was in second gear to check the afr under load. The car started linelocking at 60-70 kph. The missus wasn't real happy