Project Scrawny

[Birds]

Starting to see more of a chest now

Do you do incline bench / dumbells?

[Trozzle]

Starting to see more of a chest now

Do you do incline bench / dumbells?

Yep, I think they're adding to my appearance a LOT lately - never bothered with incline, hence large lower pectorals - though in the last month or so I've been pushing with incline dumbbells and am now on 30kg work weight with 32kg 5 rep PB.

I'm trying to do more barbell though, since I need to build delts a lot

[TM7GTR]

I have the same problem man, didn't use barbell's enough and now my front delt development is lacking, and therefore my bench is no where near what I want it to be

[Trozzle]

It really never occurred to me just how much barbell presses activate delts derp.

Having said that, I'm doing well with 60kg incline barbell this arvo - 9/8/6/5 reps. Sore as all f**k immediately afterwards.

[TM7GTR]

Nice work. I finally got 85kg incline and flat last week, this week I'll try for 90kg... ambitious

[Birds]

Yep, I think they're adding to my appearance a LOT lately - never bothered with incline, hence large lower pectorals - though in the last month or so I've been pushing with incline dumbbells and am now on 30kg work weight with 32kg 5 rep PB.

I'm trying to do more barbell though, since I need to build delts a lot

Incline is very important for chest physique, I asked because I agree - you need upper pec work - but keep it up and fear not, it doesn't take long for the upper to catch up. I made the same mistake and didn't hit incline until much later in my gym life

[NickR33]

just remember when working on an incline you don't need much angle to work upper pecs... too much angle on the bench and its all front delts (not an issue if that's what your trying to hit)

I like first notch on the adjustable benches... also like incline flyes in between or after press sets as it takes your triceps out of the movement and allows you to get a bit more chest work done

[God_speed]

Well done Troy. And agree on the incline bench, worked really well for me for the upper pec area including the part where they join the delts. Didn't seem probable to me initially, because the pec muscle is just pec major / minor; but I can vouch that incline work has been brilliant for giving more upper chest shape.

[Trozzle]

Good point Nick, I might have it a bit high though yes I really do need to hit my delts a bit more anyway so it's all G I'll also consider super sets with flies or just doing them afterwards, since I agree that they will activate the pecs more which is desirable.

Thanks Matt I can definitely feel and see the difference already.

[Trozzle]

I'm struggling a little with incline bench still, can't really push any more than 60kg for 8 reps...however flat bench is coming along nicely - 80kg for 8/7/5/5 reps. Considering how close I was to falling asleep before I caffeine'd it up and went this arvo, I'd say I could likely push 85kg+ decently on a good day.

[25GTT]

Just going through this Trozzle and thought i could help, dont know why i keep picking on you but hope to help anyway :-)

I little hint that i give my members and i guess it relates to "muscle memory" but in a different way. especially with your bench, do your PB as your last set. I find that a part of weight training also relates to your body and what your mind perceives as the associated weight. I know this kinda sounds "deeeeeeep man" but i seem to find some good results on it.

So your last set pack on another 5 - 10 kilo do 3 - 6 reps if you have to but keep that last rep as they heaviest. so the next time you are ready to hit the bench i am hoping you associate it with the last heavier weight you did, so when you do go back to your starting weight you will find it a bit easier.

Let me show you:

8 reps 80kilo

8 reps 80 kilo

8 reps 80 kilo

(last set) 6 reps 90 kilo

rest say 3 days between doing chest

8 reps 82.5 kilo

8 reps 82.5 kilo

8 reps 82.5 kilo

last set 6 reps 90 kilo

do 82.5 for 3/4weeks then go 85. remember what i pm'd you about, it takes time. Patience on this.

I also note you have all mentioned bench/chest using delts, spot on. You will all actually feel that activation of your different muscle groups coming in generally a quarter to a third away from your chest on the way up.

Now.... let me think this through, on the way up. Initial activiation will occur through predominantly anterior (front) deltoid with secondary from pectoralis major and middle deltoid. Now as you continue upwards you can feel a kind of week spot as mentioned about a quarter on the way up. That seems to be further activation of pecotralis major and minor and release of the middle deltoid and also less stress on the anterior deltoid occuring, kind of feels like the different muscles are kicking in. ( i am not going into lat movement etc on this )

Your anterior delt will pretty much be activated through the entire bench process and without looking too far into it i would be concentrating on over excersion of the pectoral muscle at the top of the actual chest muscle eg "try to squeeze your tits together at the top of the press"

Lifting heavy and lifting with correct technique are two very different things, i can get far better results with the latter.

My point being on all of this is two things:

1 - finish your last reps on a slighter heavy weight. adjust your weight only slightly every 4 weeks. (p.s. further to this i am now seeing very light plates for olympic bars coming into the market 500g to 1kilo purely for this training style, minor weight increases = max gains)

2 - make sure you have good strong delts for that first quarter on the way up its going to need them i find that is the hardest part of the bench press. I currenly have bursitis in my left shoulder from a bike accident. that first quarter is killing me right now! i have dropped down to 80 from 110 due to the pain associated.

[Birds]

I agree about finishing on your max. It's for this reason that I don't like drop sets or doing bench press (e.g. at a mate's house to show off) outside of my workouts - mentally it makes the warm up and working sets feel much lighter next gym session. I was trying to explain it to a mate the other night - couldn't put it into words, so I might show him your post lol.

Small increments are good too...wouldn't mind trying the 500gm plates. We have 1.25kg plates and if you're unlucky they'll cost you one rep, which isn't bad for trying to step up.

[25GTT]

Hey birds, I will see if I can find a retail/online supplier of them. The guy who was talking about the really light plates was the owner of a large pt studio talking at the wafic conference a while ago. Basically discussing the benefits of these plates in assisting getting out of training plateaus through gradual increase. I looked on his website but is more about his gym and pt. I have a meeting with a supplier on Thursday so might see what there thoughts are and where to get them.

We went looking in retail stores orbit etc but couldn't find any.

[Trozzle]

Just going through this Trozzle and thought i could help, dont know why i keep picking on you but hope to help anyway :-)

I little hint that i give my members and i guess it relates to "muscle memory" but in a different way. especially with your bench, do your PB as your last set. I find that a part of weight training also relates to your body and what your mind perceives as the associated weight. I know this kinda sounds "deeeeeeep man" but i seem to find some good results on it.

So your last set pack on another 5 - 10 kilo do 3 - 6 reps if you have to but keep that last rep as they heaviest. so the next time you are ready to hit the bench i am hoping you associate it with the last heavier weight you did, so when you do go back to your starting weight you will find it a bit easier.

Let me show you:

8 reps 80kilo

8 reps 80 kilo

8 reps 80 kilo

(last set) 6 reps 90 kilo

rest say 3 days between doing chest

8 reps 82.5 kilo

8 reps 82.5 kilo

8 reps 82.5 kilo

last set 6 reps 90 kilo

do 82.5 for 3/4weeks then go 85. remember what i pm'd you about, it takes time. Patience on this.

I also note you have all mentioned bench/chest using delts, spot on. You will all actually feel that activation of your different muscle groups coming in generally a quarter to a third away from your chest on the way up.

Now.... let me think this through, on the way up. Initial activiation will occur through predominantly anterior (front) deltoid with secondary from pectoralis major and middle deltoid. Now as you continue upwards you can feel a kind of week spot as mentioned about a quarter on the way up. That seems to be further activation of pecotralis major and minor and release of the middle deltoid and also less stress on the anterior deltoid occuring, kind of feels like the different muscles are kicking in. ( i am not going into lat movement etc on this )

Your anterior delt will pretty much be activated through the entire bench process and without looking too far into it i would be concentrating on over excersion of the pectoral muscle at the top of the actual chest muscle eg "try to squeeze your tits together at the top of the press"

Lifting heavy and lifting with correct technique are two very different things, i can get far better results with the latter.

My point being on all of this is two things:

1 - finish your last reps on a slighter heavy weight. adjust your weight only slightly every 4 weeks. (p.s. further to this i am now seeing very light plates for olympic bars coming into the market 500g to 1kilo purely for this training style, minor weight increases = max gains)

2 - make sure you have good strong delts for that first quarter on the way up its going to need them i find that is the hardest part of the bench press. I currenly have bursitis in my left shoulder from a bike accident. that first quarter is killing me right now! i have dropped down to 80 from 110 due to the pain associated.

This all makes a lot of sense I'll start actively upping my last set now. I used to do it in a way, just if I felt that the first 2 sets on X weight were 'easy' enough, I'd up the last set....come to think of it, this is where I was making the fastest gains hahahaha. Damnit.

[Trozzle]

new PB with deadlifts - 140kg 2 sets of 3 reps. Grip was failing (alternate grip). Yes my lower back was being monitored to ensure I wasn't letting it arch, doing much better there

[Mitcho_7]

I'm trying to do more barbell though, since I need to build delts a lot

didn't use barbell's enough and now my front delt development is lacking, and therefore my bench is no where near what I want it to be

Can someone explain to me how there is any difference between a barbell bench press and a dumbell bench press in terms of delt development? I would have thought the fact that both arms are pushing the exact same weight (not one side being able to compensate for the other) that if anything, you would be getting more even development.

IMPO Dumbells also help to build strength in stabilizer muscles alot more than barbells. But thats not to say barbells dont have there place, I usually alternate between barbell one week and bumbell the next for most exercises that can be done with either.

Also, if you want to build anterior delts why not just do shoulder presses and military presses?

[Trozzle]

Can someone explain to me how there is any difference between a barbell bench press and a dumbell bench press in terms of delt development? I would have thought the fact that both arms are pushing the exact same weight (not one side being able to compensate for the other) that if anything, you would be getting more even development.

IMPO Dumbells also help to build strength in stabilizer muscles alot more than barbells. But thats not to say barbells dont have there place, I usually alternate between barbell one week and bumbell the next for most exercises that can be done with either.

Also, if you want to build anterior delts why not just do shoulder presses and military presses?

Can utilise triceps a lot more with a barbell as your hands are a set distance apart (think about what happens when you use more tricep). Also barbell will usually use more delts since you're lowering the bar more towards your feet without being able to rotate your wrists.

[Mitcho_7]

Can utilise triceps a lot more with a barbell as your hands are a set distance apart (think about what happens when you use more tricep). Also barbell will usually use more delts since you're lowering the bar more towards your feet without being able to rotate your wrists.

I would disagree with both of those things.

You can lower the bar wherever you want on your chest, just change your shoulder and arm position.

Also, i would have thought the wider your hands are the more focus you take off your triceps. Otherwise why would you do close grip bench for triceps?You need less range of motion through triceps to get the bar to your chest the wider your hands are and the wider your hands are the more the focus you put on your pecs.

You can do all this with dumbells just as easily as a barbell.

I still think that if you want to build anterior delts, do something that anterior delts is going to be the prime mover in eg shoulder press...

Edited June 22, 2012 by Mitcho_7

[Trozzle]

I would disagree with both of those things.

You can lower the bar wherever you want on your chest, just change your shoulder and arm position.

Also, i would have thought the wider your hands are the more focus you take off your triceps. Otherwise why would you do close grip bench for triceps?You need less range of motion through triceps to get the bar to your chest the wider your hands are and the wider your hands are the more the focus you put on your pecs.

You can do all this with dumbells just as easily as a barbell.

I still think that if you want to build anterior delts, do something that anterior delts is going to be the prime mover in eg shoulder press...

I've always held the bar just outside of shoulder width, so neither 'wide' nor 'close'. What happens when you're using dumbbells and utilise your triceps more? The dumbbells will spread outward away from each other. This can't happen with the barbell, so it allows you to utilise triceps more than you would be able to with the dumbbells. Not saying it's using them more primarily, just the ability to use them more is available.

Regarding where you lower the bar, I've always been shown to lower the bar more towards the lower part of your sternum/solar plexus. Since this will be forward of the point of rotation (shoulders) it activates delts to stop the bar dropping forward, no? I've never seen anyone bench press in line with their shoulders, which is the only real way you could bring delt activation to a minimum....in my mind at least.

[Mitcho_7]

I can see where you're coming from.

Regardless, i think it's best to alternate between using barbells and dumbells every other week to get the benefits of both and for variety