New Performance Cars

[simpletool]

Falcon turbo (FG series)

Exhaust + reflash XR6 turbo gives you 270rwkw.

Add injectors you get 300rwkw.

Bolt-on turbo and you can easily get 400rwkw with minimal lag.

All with MASSIVE torque.

I've started looking at a G6E turbo (absolute bargain). Will keep my skyline GTST cause it is worth more to be as a toy.

o

Initial impressions of the handling of an FG are not fantastic as it seems too comfortable with some body roll at initial turn-in. But go a bit harder and there is some very impressive handling for the size of the car. I'd think with some decent 9" rims, rubber, sway bars and a 20mm drop the car would be pretty damn good. The dampers are Biltein units the same type as in the SK kits. The IRS rear end is quite good, the steering is OK but would improve with a stiffer rack mount.

Yes it's a big car but I'm getting older I guess and there isn't much else.

Otherwise an Evo IX or Megane RS

The only real problem is the interior was put together pretty crappy. I'll probably take the entire console and door trims off and refit after putting some foam strip inside.

Edited July 8, 2011 by simpletool

[IanB]

In Regards to the FWD / RWD arguement:

In my life, I have owned 4 cars. I started with a Mazda Astina, which I blew up. I then proceeded to get a familia half-cut and drop the BPT motor into the car which gave me a turbo FWD. My next car was a R32 GTR, and I then bought another (which I still have). After that, I went halfs with my partner for a S15 which we use as our daily drive (some may question the wisdom of having a second turbo car as my daily, but I digress.).

This has given me a fairly broad experience over the three platforms AWD, RWD and FWD.

Out of all the cars, the Astina was faster then the S15, but slower then the skylines in a straight line. It was however by far the worst handling of the three cars, despite being the lightest (I'd have to check that but im pretty confident), and had this particular habit of power-understeering towards the largest immovable object it could find. It torque-steered all over the shop and if something should go wrong, was by far the hardest car to pull out of a tight spot - also, compression lockups were the kiss of death. Now granted that there have been vast improvements to the world of fronties since then, but I am comparing apples to apples, and both the astina and skyline were from the early 90's - Also, if people are going to argue that the Astina was never supposed to be turbocharged, I would say that the engine bay went so far as to have the mounting points for the factory sidemount intercooler from the Familia, so it was clearly on the cards at one point.

Those that say FWD can be sports cars are wrong, and are probably merely trying to defend their own decisions or circumstances which have given them "sports" front wheel drives. SSS pulsars, MPS 3's etc etc etc are all commuter cars first and sports cars second - which is fine. But when you put them up against the likes of Skylines, RX7's, Supras etc, all of which are *dedicated* sports cars, then they come off a very distant second. FWD is the budget option, its cheaper to build and easier to maintain, and is the most fuel efficient, but none of these virtues makes it good from a performance point of view.

I will say however that I have noticed something about frontie drivers (in particular Clio Sports drivers) - and I had the same problem when I was one - they are forever trying to tell you that FWD is better. Which it simply is not.

In regards to the falcon:

My parents had a territory for a few years prior to the subaru they have now. Be wary of ford build quality - they last just a little bit longer then their warranties and even before then you are starting to notice thing degrade in a hurry. They are built to a budget and that budget is not very large. Also, I would be checking whether or not the car has a LSD - the territory did not, which it got away with because it was AWD, but for such a large and heavy car you would expect that you would get at least a LSD.

Edited July 8, 2011 by IanB

[sneakey pete]

Build quality experience is relative. problem is everyone will talk about the bad car they have, and the 25 other blokes who had a good one won't say a thing.

With regards to buying a G6E turbo and doing suspension mods on it to handle better... isn't that defeating the point? it is a luxury spec car afterall, you'd just be ruining the ride quality. better to save money and just get a base spec xr6?

[tridentt150v]

can't compare the cost of importing a japanese car to that of a car from the states because not only are you paying for compliance but you are paying for a RHD conversion as well, which means all new dash, steering setup, etc. certainly not cheap. not to mention that the cost of freighting a car from japan would be much less than from the states.

I agree totally, but the fact remains that the added on cost is still way higher than what it should be. You can buy a new Camaro for sub $30K, then add freight say $10K [and thats being generous cos I know ppl that do it for nearly half that], then L>R another $10K plus other ADR's and compliance inc. dealer margin $10K and that is also all pretty generous, you end up with closer to $50-60K. They sell for over $100-120K, there's some gouging going on there for sure.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-chevrolet-camaro.htm

[Rekin]

In Regards to the FWD / RWD arguement:

In my life, I have owned 4 cars. I started with a Mazda Astina, which I blew up. I then proceeded to get a familia half-cut and drop the BPT motor into the car which gave me a turbo FWD. My next car was a R32 GTR, and I then bought another (which I still have). After that, I went halfs with my partner for a S15 which we use as our daily drive (some may question the wisdom of having a second turbo car as my daily, but I digress.).

This has given me a fairly broad experience over the three platforms AWD, RWD and FWD.

Out of all the cars, the Astina was faster then the S15, but slower then the skylines in a straight line. It was however by far the worst handling of the three cars, despite being the lightest (I'd have to check that but im pretty confident), and had this particular habit of power-understeering towards the largest immovable object it could find. It torque-steered all over the shop and if something should go wrong, was by far the hardest car to pull out of a tight spot - also, compression lockups were the kiss of death. Now granted that there have been vast improvements to the world of fronties since then, but I am comparing apples to apples, and both the astina and skyline were from the early 90's - Also, if people are going to argue that the Astina was never supposed to be turbocharged, I would say that the engine bay went so far as to have the mounting points for the factory sidemount intercooler from the Familia, so it was clearly on the cards at one point.

Those that say FWD can be sports cars are wrong, and are probably merely trying to defend their own decisions or circumstances which have given them "sports" front wheel drives. SSS pulsars, MPS 3's etc etc etc are all commuter cars first and sports cars second - which is fine. But when you put them up against the likes of Skylines, RX7's, Supras etc, all of which are *dedicated* sports cars, then they come off a very distant second. FWD is the budget option, its cheaper to build and easier to maintain, and is the most fuel efficient, but none of these virtues makes it good from a performance point of view.

I will say however that I have noticed something about frontie drivers (in particular Clio Sports drivers) - and I had the same problem when I was one - they are forever trying to tell you that FWD is better. Which it simply is not.

In regards to the falcon:

My parents had a territory for a few years prior to the subaru they have now. Be wary of ford build quality - they last just a little bit longer then their warranties and even before then you are starting to notice thing degrade in a hurry. They are built to a budget and that budget is not very large. Also, I would be checking whether or not the car has a LSD - the territory did not, which it got away with because it was AWD, but for such a large and heavy car you would expect that you would get at least a LSD.

lol at judging all FWD cars under your experience of an Astina which was never designed as a sports car.

To all the haters out there, i'll give you something to think about. Honda Integra Type-R (DC2R).

Dont judge all FWD cars by your experience in some econo-family FWD car. Would be no different to juding all RWD cars by your experience in a falcon or commodore.

[simpletool]

I've driven both a DC2R (a few times) and the base Integra VTiR and one with suspension mods and a few mods. All were essentially the same car and a good front wheel drive but nothing better than that. My ex had a Clio Sport which I drove about 50 times and again it was pretty good (and HEAPS more mid-range) but again it was just a FWD. I've also driven SSS Pulsars and ET Turbo etc etc, etc..the list goes on. FWD may be faster sometimes but it's not for me.

re. G6E vs XR6 Turbo. I prefer the looks of the G6E plus interior (leather, black console, non-ugly instruments) and it's something a bit different. The G6E barely costs more than an XR6 turbo also.

[IanB]

lol at judging all FWD cars under your experience of an Astina which was never designed as a sports car.

To all the haters out there, i'll give you something to think about. Honda Integra Type-R (DC2R).

Dont judge all FWD cars by your experience in some econo-family FWD car. Would be no different to juding all RWD cars by your experience in a falcon or commodore.

Actually the Astina shared the same platform as the mazda familia, which was designed as a sports car. So it wasn't all that bad. Add to that the turbocharged motor and I personally don't think its a bad example of a FWD for comparison at all. It also weighed quite a bit less and had more power then the DC2R, and as such was probably quite a bit faster as well. Perhaps the Honda would handle better, who knows? I don't think there'd be that much in it.

Anyway, I'm not being a "hater" - I am just speaking from my own personal experiences. I have driven several "sports" front wheel drives, including some rather new ones, and I just wouldn't pay money for them, because FWD is in my mind the worst of the three platforms. But if you like your fronties and think they are the bees knees, then go for your life. We should probably all get used to it anyway, because affordable RWD sports cars are near extinct (if its gotten so bad that people are seriously looking at commodores and falcons) and AWD is starting to go that way as well (with the coming demise of the evo).

Ferrarri, Porche, Lambourgini etc etc have never built a FWD. Why is that do you think?

What about a 350GT skyline or something like that?

[Beer Baron]

Sorry but astina's a far from a sports car and far from good handling cars. Yes plenty have had bp turbo converione and the engine fits cause it's from the same platform not because the astina is some kind of secret sports car but they removed the turbo engine.

Writing off fwd sports cars means you are limiting yourself.

There are some great ones.

Try any well set up civic. Try even a bone stock EP3 civic type R or the old DC2R integra. Try a vw scirocco gt or R. They are great cars. Try a Renault R26R. There's heaps of good ones. I've personally owned about 20 cars including every model GTR from 32 to 35 and I love my RWD. I've owned a beautiful FD Rx7 RZ with built motor etc and it's one of the best balanced cars I've driven. I still own a heavily modified S13 with 240rwkw and all the gear but neither of them make me enjoy punting a mates EP3 type R any less. Yes they are very different cars but they all have good points and being fwd doesnt neccissrily make them understeery or any less fun than a decent rwd.

My advice, keep your mind open and try as many different carsand types of cars as you can. You might be surprised.

[IanB]

My advice, keep your mind open and try as many different carsand types of cars as you can. You might be surprised.

I have, actually. I have driven the civics, MPS 3's, clio sports, GTI golfs etc etc and I did not like them (the R32 golf however was awesome!). The feeling of a FWD is unmistakable and in my mind unenjoyable - its something you can try and hide and something you can try to mitigate, but you cannot ever remove it completely. The feeling of a RWD however, is something to promote - there is no need to hide or mitigate it because it is what you want.

Im not "limiting" myself by ruling out FWD because there's nothing there for me to rule in. This whole push to FWD is coming from the bean counters in the car manufacturers who have decided that its cheaper to build FWD and their marketing departments are now trying to sell them as "sports cars" all in a bid to increase profit margins - I'm not a fan, I most likely never will be, but to be honest, that's ok. I will periodically try new fronties from time to time no doubt, various mates will get them and I will have a go. I am happy to give them a chance, but nothing FWD has ever given me the same satisfaction mid-corner as my GTR and its highly unlikely that any FWD ever will. Does that mean that they are all 100% rubbish? No. I never said that. A good FWD is probably better then say, a hiace van, or even a commodore or falcon (in certain situations), but not much else. FWD will always play second fiddle to the other platforms in my mind, and that's due in part to the nature of FWD being cost-orientated as opposed to RWD and moreso AWD which tends to be performance orientated.

I dont "hate" FWD, I have nothing against people who like or drive FWD; infact FWD makes sense if your building a commuter car or even a commuter car which may sometimes double up as a sports car. But if your building a sports car that may sometimes double up as a commuter car, RWD is a minimum in my mind, if I am going to pay money for it.

I don't want this descending into an argument or a slinging match so this is going to be my last post in this thread. Sorry if I offended anyone with my thoughts, but that's the nature of discussion.

Regards,

Ian

[mad082]

i think a lot of people in here who have driven fwd cars need to go back, drive them again and change their driving style to suit. you can't simply get in one and drive it like a rwd and then say "this is crap, rwd is better". a fwd fanboi could do the same. hop into a rwd car, try and drive it like a fwd and then say that rwd is crap. if you go barrelling into a corner, then just try and stop on the gas on the way out of course it will push a bit, however if you do the same thing in a rwd car you will find that there is a good chance you would end up pointing back back where you came from if you don't do it carefully. a lot of people don't show fwd cars the same caution when trying to drive them fast so then say they are crap because they behave differently to a rwd car.

also fwd 'sports' cars from the 80's 90's are a pretty poor basis to work on for what this thread is about. the new stuff has much more advanced diffs, etc which cuts out a lot of the torque steer and power understeer. turn in understeer won't vary much between rwd and fwd and comes more down to the individual car setup as plenty of rwd cars will understeer like a bitch on turn in when pushed hard and a fwd car can be made to get turn in oversteer pretty easily.

i'm not saying that fwd are better than rwd, just simply saying that they shouldn't be ruled out, and for 90% of the driving people do you won't notice the difference between rwd and fwd. it's only when you start to drive spiritedly that any difference becomes apparent, and anyone who says otherwise is suffering from a placebo effect where their dislike of the platform is making them feel things that aren't there.

[simpletool]

i think a lot of people in here who have driven fwd cars need to go back, drive them again and change their driving style to suit. you can't simply get in one and drive it like a rwd and then say "this is crap, rwd is better". a fwd fanboi could do the same. hop into a rwd car, try and drive it like a fwd and then say that rwd is crap. if you go barrelling into a corner, then just try and stop on the gas on the way out of course it will push a bit, however if you do the same thing in a rwd car you will find that there is a good chance you would end up pointing back back where you came from if you don't do it carefully. a lot of people don't show fwd cars the same caution when trying to drive them fast so then say they are crap because they behave differently to a rwd car.also fwd 'sports' cars from the 80's 90's are a pretty poor basis to work on for what this thread is about. the new stuff has much more advanced diffs, etc which cuts out a lot of the torque steer and power understeer. turn in understeer won't vary much between rwd and fwd and comes more down to the individual car setup as plenty of rwd cars will understeer like a bitch on turn in when pushed hard and a fwd car can be made to get turn in oversteer pretty easily. i'm not saying that fwd are better than rwd, just simply saying that they shouldn't be ruled out, and for 90% of the driving people do you won't notice the difference between rwd and fwd. it's only when you start to drive spiritedly that any difference becomes apparent, and anyone who says otherwise is suffering from a placebo effect where their dislike of the platform is making them feel things that aren't there.

+ 1 for the needing to drive FWD differently. Hell, every car needs to be driven differently.

FWD still isn't for me. But it can be fun sometimes, I just don't like the lack of "expression session" mode. Sure, I very rarely use it, but when I want to I really really want to.

FWD vs RWD might not matter for 90% of the driving, but it's that 10% that I always remember. Kinda like saying 99% of the time it doesn't matter if you've never had sex, it's the 1% of the time that you remember.

Edited July 11, 2011 by simpletool

[mad082]

+ 1 for the needing to drive FWD differently. Hell, every car needs to be driven differently.

FWD still isn't for me. But it can be fun sometimes, I just don't like the lack of "expression session" mode. Sure, I very rarely use it, but when I want to I really really want to.

FWD vs RWD might not matter for 90% of the driving, but it's that 10% that I always remember. Kinda like saying 99% of the time it doesn't matter if you've never had sex, it's the 1% of the time that you remember.

see now i accept this is a response because you have validated your reason as well as said that at other times it is ok. people who simply say "fwd is shit" or use the torque steer argument without realising that not all fwd cars suffer from much torque steer get on my nerves because they have a pretty much baseless/misinformed argument. it is one thing to say you don't like something, it is another thing to say it is shit. it is the same as how people say a commodore or falcon is shit, yet they are better than a skyline at many things but most skyline fanbois will only look at certain aspects that favour their car (such as acceleration).

[cannabiscorpse]

Thing is i havent read any posts that just blatantly right off or say fwd are shit. Sure, their is plenty saying that they dont like the feel of torque steer, or that they prefer rwd which i think is completely understandable, after all it is just preference. People are always going to express their opinion based on their driving experiences, some will prefer awd, some rwd and others fwd.

I completely agree that people basing their opinions on a small group of cars and then saying it is shit is misinformed and plainly stupid, however i havent seen any posts of that nature in this particular thread.

[FineLine]

it is the same as how people say a commodore or falcon is shit, yet they are better than a skyline at many things but most skyline fanbois will only look at certain aspects that favour their car (such as acceleration).

That would rank as one of the dumbest statements ever posted on a skyline forum.

[Cowboy1600]

That would rank as one of the dumbest statements ever posted on a skyline forum.

Why so?

It might not be the most eloquent sentence, but the point he is making is completely sound.

[tridentt150v]

That would rank as one of the dumbest statements ever posted on a skyline forum.

Easy to say, can you please explain..............lol

[mad082]

That would rank as one of the dumbest statements ever posted on a skyline forum.

lets look at a few things

1: cost of insuring. shits all over imports, especially for young drivers

2: cost of running: can run on the cheapest fuel you can find and can use cheap oil and they are cheap to fix and pretty much everywhere has parts. again a big tick for the aussie cars

3: want to carry 4 adult passengers plus some luggage? aussie sedan will do it more comfortably than a skyline, even a 4 door

4: going to park in a shopping centre carpark or in a dodgy part of town? would you rather spend the whole time wondering if the car is going to get damaged or stolen or would you rather enjoy what you are doing? commodore or falcon is the better choice there

5: want to be able to drive around without getting hassled by the cops? another tick for the aussies

6: in a commodore or falcon you don't care if it develops a rattle or starts making a new noise, you just keep on driving and only check it if it sounds bad. in a skyline you spend hours checking things everytime it starts to make the slightest little noise.

[FineLine]

lets look at a few things

1: cost of insuring. shits all over imports, especially for young drivers

2: cost of running: can run on the cheapest fuel you can find and can use cheap oil and they are cheap to fix and pretty much everywhere has parts. again a big tick for the aussie cars

3: want to carry 4 adult passengers plus some luggage? aussie sedan will do it more comfortably than a skyline, even a 4 door

4: going to park in a shopping centre carpark or in a dodgy part of town? would you rather spend the whole time wondering if the car is going to get damaged or stolen or would you rather enjoy what you are doing? commodore or falcon is the better choice there

5: want to be able to drive around without getting hassled by the cops? another tick for the aussies

6: in a commodore or falcon you don't care if it develops a rattle or starts making a new noise, you just keep on driving and only check it if it sounds bad. in a skyline you spend hours checking things everytime it starts to make the slightest little noise.

1. I am not young but regardless, any performance car is expensive to insure for a younger driver.

2. A hundai is an import too and costs far less to maintain and service than any holden or falcon. Other than the higher end oil (which I would and do use in all my vehicles) service costs are the same as any 6 cylinder vehicle.

3.I have no desire to carry 4 adult passengers or 1 unmarried bogan slart with 5 kids to 5 different fathers hence that is not a consideration.

4. This is a given with any car other than a pos. The guy with the new falcadore will be just as pissed as the guy with the skyline if nana side swipes him in a car park

5. Another furfy. Have you seen my car. I doubt there is a higher profile car out there from a visual aspect. I have not been pulled over in 4 and 1/2 years. Now go to the vl forums and ask the same question.

6. I dont know where to start. Every vehicle I own or have owned gets the same treatment (other than a mazda bongo van I owned years ago) In my family there are 2 maximas, 1 patrol a pulsar and my skyline. They all recieve the same attention mechanically'

You are basing your point of view on a flawed argument. In mainstream your arguments may well be valid but in a dedicated skyline forum dont you think most owners have already considered all the above.

[Iron Chef]

I agree totally, but the fact remains that the added on cost is still way higher than what it should be. You can buy a new Camaro for sub $30K, then add freight say $10K [and thats being generous cos I know ppl that do it for nearly half that], then L>R another $10K plus other ADR's and compliance inc. dealer margin $10K and that is also all pretty generous, you end up with closer to $50-60K. They sell for over $100-120K, there's some gouging going on there for sure.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-chevrolet-camaro.htm

lol a Camaro SS is $34K give or take, conversions are $30K not $10K, but I understand your point...

I'm trying to do something about the high prices...

www.ironblockimports.com

Edited July 14, 2011 by Iron Chef

[HEKT1K]

lets look at a few things

1: cost of insuring. shits all over imports, especially for young drivers

2: cost of running: can run on the cheapest fuel you can find and can use cheap oil and they are cheap to fix and pretty much everywhere has parts. again a big tick for the aussie cars

3: want to carry 4 adult passengers plus some luggage? aussie sedan will do it more comfortably than a skyline, even a 4 door

4: going to park in a shopping centre carpark or in a dodgy part of town? would you rather spend the whole time wondering if the car is going to get damaged or stolen or would you rather enjoy what you are doing? commodore or falcon is the better choice there

5: want to be able to drive around without getting hassled by the cops? another tick for the aussies

6: in a commodore or falcon you don't care if it develops a rattle or starts making a new noise, you just keep on driving and only check it if it sounds bad. in a skyline you spend hours checking things everytime it starts to make the slightest little noise.

These points have nothing to do with being an 'enthusiast' and everything to do with you being poor and a sook. Just sayin'