P Platers Driving Turbos And V8's

[cannabiscorpse]

but the point stands: it's a ridiculously selfish and foolish thing to do. The law's there for a reason, and it's to protect both the public and inexperienced drivers.

I couldnt agree more. However dont get me started on the laws 'that protect the public'. I mean, look at the licensing system, in what way does it teach actual skills to drivers? It just pisses me off that we have defensive driver courses, and skid pans etc and the government does nil to teach drivers actual skills. Instead their way of saving lives is to teach 10 second rules etc at kerbs before pulling out.

[oweban]

I couldnt agree more. However dont get me started on the laws 'that protect the public'. I mean, look at the licensing system, in what way does it teach actual skills to drivers? It just pisses me off that we have defensive driver courses, and skid pans etc and the government does nil to teach drivers actual skills. Instead their way of saving lives is to teach 10 second rules etc at kerbs before pulling out.

You're absolutely right; I'd love for there to be a system that enforces more driver training from the word go; I did a driver training course not long after getting my Skyline and it's the best damn thing I ever did.

I think Germany has a damn good system re: not allowing parents to teach their kids to drive, and having all skidpan days before even getting their license, but you couldn't pull that in Australia... "OHH THE AUSSIE BATTLERS, THINK OF THE BATTLERS, IT'LL COST SO MUCH" etc

I guess a bit of respect on the road for everyone else goes a long way; just wish everyone would do it for each other.

Ah well! In a perfect world...

[GoldZilla]

Well...... I've opened a can of worms here.

Robust conversations are all well and good but I think we do need to put things into perspective. As I asked in on of my earlier post...... What about the parents?

I would NEVER dream of allowing my kids to drive a restricted car purely because of the potential consequences.

I find it hard to believe that a cop will let anyone off because if that "P" plater raps him or herself around a pole and it's proven that a cop didn't do anything then they are in HUGE trouble.

Bob.

Unfortunately, some parents just don't care either.

I was at an import dealership on the weekend and was told that a kid (relative term) had just received a Ferrari 360 off his parents simply to celebrate the fact that he was off his P's and was no longer on a restricted license! Apparently he was only around 21 years old.

[DC33VN]

If in an 'at fault' accident I presume the insurance company will pull out of any obligation to pay if the policy conditions allow it to do so?

Thats right insurance basically voids it because you are not abiding by your license conditions.

Not worth the risk to be honest i was going to drive mine for 6 months till i get my fulls and i wasn't going to let my hard earned money go to waste so its sitting locked up.

[tweety bird]

i think the best way to describe our driving test is say it's a test of driving etiquette rather then a test of driving skill.

personally i think it's disgusting the nsw government is putting a price on people's lives but it's even more disgusting the government is getting away with it.

[GTEES]

I'm currently on my reds and have been for 7 months now. I drive an r32 gts with a full 5 stud upgrade with turbo brakes and wheels. the car is lower and the wheels are back making the car look fairly cop bait. Have not been pulled up once, the cops in my area (Se suburbs, Melb) seem to be very chill, but i guess the fact that i drive sensibly on main roads helps. highly considering dropping an rb20det into it as the current motor is running out of puff and I'm pretty confident I wont be caught around my area.

[dori34]

don't know about elsewhere but in my area, the cops (both normal & HWP) pick on P platers more and pull them over quite often (regardless of turbo or not) as long as its a sport car/coupe, has mags/exhaust etc.

[Aggroman]

I think ill close this when I get home..

These threads always bring out idiots and have no real meaning

[Mosullivan]

My mate has had a VL turbo, S13 turbo, 180SX turbo, SSS supercharged, SSS turbo and a 5L Calais and has been caught driving all of them. Was let off every time, no fine, no loss of licence.

You're joking?

One of my friends got done for 7 points and $400 (i think) for driving his parents 05 C200 merc to lunch one afternoon

[kuma j]

I have mixed views on this law, one side of me thinks its good because it keeps inexperienced drivers out of high powered cars. but it also comes down to driver training.

i was very lucky and grew up in the bush so i learnt to drive around in a datsun 180B when i was 8. i learnt alot about how a car handles from a very young age. then once i finally got my P's my first car was an LH Torana with a 308 in it. i never had an accident and i never drove in a manner dangerous to anyone on the road beacause i was brought up with good knowledge of how a car handles and was taught to respect the road and other road users.......... also if my parents ever found out i was driving like a wanker i would have beeen in alot of trouble from them. forget about the cops.

I guess at the emd of the day people need to learn how to drive, this is why they should teach drivers ed in schools from year 6 or 7.

i think this law needs to be patrolled alot more than it is.

[oweban]

Yep, my parents would have murdered me if I'd been doing something stupid as a P plater

[cannabiscorpse]

I honestly think they dont make much difference, i mean, dont get me wrong i would like to see the statistics, but i think the lack of p plate deaths has been because of more police presence, and harsher penalties, not the high power car laws. When i was a p plater, everyone was getting killed in 6cylinder falcodores, and from what the paper showed me this morning, not much has changed.

All i know is that the way i drove on red p's (and yes my parents would have killed me if they had known the extent of what i did) in my shitty v6 commodore, its a damn miracle im not dead, or didnt kill others. However, on my greens i bought an ss commodore, and treated it with much greater respect, along with other road users. I think(along with everyone else on here) the government needs to look at the driver training, not just etiquette as someone else brilliantly put it. I know that personally, i was very lucky to drive at 9-10 years of age in the bush with dad, and very lucky to have him train me skills in gravel and how to corner properly on my l plates. That is probably the only reason i didnt kill someone. I honestly think with the right driver training, most drivers will realize that they arent such great drivers after all, something that most of us learn after one or two spin-outs, sometimes which is too late. The way i look at it is, would i rather a 17 year old in a 160 odd kw falcodore 6 that cant drive for shit, or a 17 year old in a 220kw odd v8 that knows his limitations and how to handle a car? I mean, i know thats not our choice, but wouldnt it be great if it was.

Edited July 19, 2011 by cannabiscorpse

[SargeRX8]

My mates R32 golf is making about 220awkw and perfectly legal for him to drive too, not restricted. I have NO idea how the RTA missed this car. This damn thing is a f**king rocket, even when it was stock as a rock it was very quick.

Too often I see P platers driving cars they shouldn't. There is a guy with a VZ SS up the road from me ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL flooring it up the street.... Thing is, I think its just a badged car because it sounds exactly like my brothers V6 VZ, no V8 burble. None the less, people take the risk because they don't care and their parents either don't know the rules or just don't care.

I wouldn't let my children drive high powered cars. I especially wouldn't let my daughter touch a high powered car. Anyone who thinks its its only younger male drivers who hoon, f**k you would be amazed at the amount of female drivers I get trying to egg me on and hooning on the street. Its disgusting and they SERIOUSLY can't control their f**king car for shit. Some dumb arse in our area drives an S15 and without fail always tries to race EVERY sports car near her. I had seen one female driver in a evo 7 coming down church street while I was going up. I was turning right onto parramatta road and she looked to be going down to woodville road from church street. Light turns green for us to go left and straight and the stupid bitch got ahead of her self and jumped the gun thinking her side was going to get green. She copped an ear full from me as I would have been the first one to make impact.

After having been in an accident where I was not at fault, you kind of appreciate the better drivers on the street. I see guys in skylines who cruise along side me, we just give the nod of the head and be on our way. Sure sometimes we give abit of throttle but what, seriously. Its just these girls who think they are fully f**king sick driving a hotted up, or even a piece of shit pulsar, who think they can do as they please.

I'm sorry but I just don't feel comfortable with females driving even moderately powered cars. Sure they can floor it but as soon as there is a f**king 1 degree bend in the road they are already taking up every lane and they do not ever check their mirrors when changing lanes.

To stay on topic, as I stated earlier, I would not let my children drive a high powered car until they are legally and mentally able to. I wanted a sports car since my P's, but I done it hard and drove a tarago around for 5 years before I got my skyline.

/end rant

[evil_weevil]

Dave - dont close the thread.

its a good read and good discussion so far. lets keep it that way.

my point is and always has been = NSW and Australia needs a more strict driver education program.

edit - on topic - to answer Bob's question...

no, I wouldnt let them drive a prohibited vehicle.

I'll be bringing my kids up with proper driver education. I'll be starting them in go karts as young as possible. age of 14 you can get your jnr cams licence. they'll be doing this.

a few reasons...1. so they can be a professional race car driver and I can live off them. LOL

2. they'll actually learn skills and have a head start on driving and have a good idea on how to drive and control a car if the worst were to happen.

3. because race car.

[Galois]

Most people, especially p-platers, forget that p-platers are still learner drivers. I don't mean that in an offensive way, but I know a fair few and having been driving for 6 years longer than them I notice how quick they are to abandon simple, safe rules. Like usually drive at 10 and 2, or at least when maneuvering the car; and braking harder earlier, rather than cutting it close when emergency braking.

I've taken a few L-platers I've had to teach to a quiet, un-used abandoned street and told them to slam on the brakes, there's nothing more important than having some sense of how quick your car will stop, and knowing what abs does and how it helps.

Instead their way of saving lives is to teach 10 second rules etc at kerbs before pulling out.

Plenty of drivers fail at even that.

I honestly think with the right driver training, most drivers will realize that they arent such great drivers after all, something that most of us learn after one or two spin-outs, sometimes which is too late.

It's not just that, it's that the road is not a race track. It has kids running out and drivers falling asleep. The road a surprisingly dangerous place.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Galois

[cannabiscorpse]

Plenty of drivers fail at even that.

It's not just that, it's that the road is not a race track. It has kids running out and drivers falling asleep. The road a surprisingly dangerous place.

Yes they do, you would be surprised at how many times i have seen people pull out without even vaguely looking, well then again you probably wouldnt. Especially the seniors from what ive seen, they seem to think that its fine they cant look over their shoulder anymore to check blind spots, i dont however think its fine.

I feel that with further driver education, an awful lot of the 'invincibility' attitude may ( i repeat may) be kicked. I think that when learning the finer details of handling a car we pretty quickly realize that no matter how good we are, a car still cant stop on a 50c piece. Especially like you say, with kids on the street and other idiot drivers. Most people would probably feel sick if they saw the things i did on my red p's (including myself) and i can remember just how many times my parents used to try and drill in my head that it isnt just my ability, but external influences that will bring you undone.

I dont think it got through to me until i had a few very close calls and scares. I honestly think that providing those 'wake up calls' in a controlled environment would help significantly.

[Kujotk]

Yep, my parents would have murdered me if I'd been doing something stupid as a P plater

Same, when I was a P plater I was more shitscared of my old man than some random police officer... I knew a copper can't hurt me, I knew the old man would bring out his belt if I did something stupid lol.

I got my old R33 gtst when on green p's (it was right before the laws came in so I was one of the last p platers who could legally drive a turbo), I did more stupid things in my first year of driving in a Kia Rio than I ever did in my Skyline which I only sold 2 months ago???

I do like the license suspension laws though. It possibly saved my life. I didn't smash or loose controll probably because I slowed the fk down after I lost my license while on my reds for speeding like an idiot in the RIO, If I drove the skyline how I drove the rio I would have killed myself at some point and probably taken out a whole lot of others with me. For me that punishment (and the $609 fine) worked for me. I can't say it will work for everyone.

An age restriction is stupid though, as we can see it doesn't work, some people just flout the laws anyway, you can just as easily kill yourself in a 900cc 1980's renalt than you would in a turbo skyline, atleast if they smash a skyline there is more spare parts available for the rest of us, be it a motor, door panel, electric window relay, kidney....

No matter how much discussion we have, it all ends here and nothing gets done about it except for arguing.

In the end, do what I did and move to Europe, 15 minutes from one of Germanys unrestricted autobahns FTW!!!!!

[Kujotk]

Also I would encourage my children to drive a high powered car instead of making it a taboo thing, not as an everyday car but as a "lets go out together and drive this powerful car". Look at Australias youth alcohol problem, now look at Europes? They can legally drink whenever they like basically, but they dont generally go out to get wasted.... same sort of thing. Make something seem bad for you and the youth will always chase it even if they arn't ready for it. Then compare it to america, they have a higher drinking age and their alcoho culture is even more screwed than australias. It is all related but realy there is nothing that can be done. You just have to accept that driving is a matter nof trusting complete strangers not to missbehave and that driving is potentially the most dangerous thing you are likely to do in yo0ur life.

[central coast person]

Pointless law, i have debated about this on a team. There are positives about this but overall its negative, the number of deaths have increased since this has been introduced and you have to look into why this is happening.

Common cause is the cars with superchargers and turbo are funnily enough safer cars, they come with airbags and larger brakes and better suspension etc etc. An example is all non turbo skylines have the same brakes as a N15 pulsar, they are a sliding caliper that is 2 piston at the front and 1 piston in the rear, thats very poor for what the car is. But the turbo's come with a totaly different designed caliper ......... this is always the case with different models of cars of all makes no matter what it is. So first off P platers are limited to unsafe cars.

Also as stated about someones friend in this thread, they have a VW golf. They're fast cars and also cheap, there is a GTI at the moment for sale for $16,000 and im sure it can be made cheaper so a p plater can afford this. Story is cars of the 21st century can be a 4cyl and as fast as a v8 from 30 years ago. Politicians simply don't think very well. All cars that are 1990+ are capable of going 120km/h and higher and that is a deadly speed to hit a tree at, if a p plater wants a fast car that's legal they can easily get something capable of 180km/h or higher without interfering with the law.

P platers cant afford to look after there cars as well as more financially stable people and so this just leaves there cars unsafe ....... im going to stop here because the list goes on and on and on but i see your point of view. Myself, i don't take note to what car they are driving because its probably more safer than most other p plater cars, it comes down to the driver driving that car you see. Ask yourself if your children would hurt themselves and friend because if you have to take something away from them enforceability thats also dangerous.

My mother taught me well and loaned me money for my skyline and i did get a non turbo because the law is the law but i think the turbos i have test driven are a total different car with much larger sway bars and brakes etc etc. Its just stupid, its like a band-aid law to shut people up.

[Grey]

In my humble opinion, driving whatever powered car won't stop you from wrapping yourself around a pole or crashing into someone at high speeds. As a P plater myself, I wish I could drive a twin turbo GTR too.

The law is there because it is there. It may be stupid, it may be silly how you can drive a lotus / tesla legally on your P's, but it's there.

This leads to consequences such as insurance not paying for the building you smashed down (few tens of thousands), or that brand new BMW you rammed into.

Stressing about being pulled over around every corner / street.

Other flamers flaming you for driving a restricted vehicle.

Too much trouble to consider, the government or whoever made these restrictions are stupid, but we can't do anything about it anyway, why bother?