Power On A Budget

[Jeremy93]

he's a fresh turbo owner living on the mean streets of gold coast. there is no private road.

I'm a fresh turbo owner, first car first turbo, but I don't want to go acting like a tart, oat the end of the day the overall power of a new V8 is going to be greater than our Skylines, sure you can spend a few grand on mods but bumping your car upto 200+rwk you need to start looking at clutches etc. So it really isn't "cheap".

[045HOW]

I'm a fresh turbo owner, first car first turbo, but I don't want to go acting like a tart, oat the end of the day the overall power of a new V8 is going to be greater than our Skylines, sure you can spend a few grand on mods but bumping your car upto 200+rwk you need to start looking at clutches etc. So it really isn't "cheap".

No disrespect to fresh owners in general. Just comes down to attitude and IQ using a public forum. and no its not cheap to make decent power.

Cheap.reliable.fast

p.s: 4 door <3

Edited July 26, 2011 by 045HOW

[lilcrash]

Just a few thoughts an things I've learnt from working with an rx7 owner., series 4 rx7 1600kg( on the scales at work, not 10000000 of a micron accurate) so not that light, 4 rebuilds in 6 months now having it's 5th. Killed 2 diffs and 1 gearbox in that time.

[ido09s]

Just a few thoughts an things I've learnt from working with an rx7 owner., series 4 rx7 1600kg( on the scales at work, not 10000000 of a micron accurate) so not that light, 4 rebuilds in 6 months now having it's 5th. Killed 2 diffs and 1 gearbox in that time.

Sounds like the guy canes his cars to death and has a dodgy workshop working on the car to begin with.

My old 12A turbo R100 when i bough it was not set up right. It had no oil cooler, no surge tank, it was never properly tuned. It was my first turbo car and i went through 2 engines with it in the space of about 12 months. I sent it to RX Engineering and told Jon to fix it. Came back and i raced it, drove it daily to work, pretty mich thrashed crap out of it. Sold it to a guy who ripped helis in it day in day out until he decied he wanted a ported turbo. The motor never died, the diff didnt die, the only thing that did happen was the box jam in 3rd, typical 121 5 speed.

They are reloable when set up and tuned properly.

Am i Mazda fan, hard to tell i am not. It just kinda gets to me when people say they are unreliable.....

[ARTZ]

I do agree somewhat I think its the mechanics that are unreliable more than the motor itself, my friend had his rebuilt twice before sending it to a different workshop who got it right, 20k later

and lilcrash might want to get some new scales, cause they weigh between 1200 to 1300kg..

How many subwoofers does he have in it

[discopotato03]

There is no cheap way to equal or better a 6+Litre V8 with any RWD R series Skyline . If you're starting with less than half the capacity its a real big ask to attempt it .

I personally agree that the only real path is cubic inches and to have any hope of getting close with an engine you can live with means some RB30 or even slightly larger engine .

The V8s feel good because they make lots of torque and don't have to rev to do it . They haul from lowish revs meaning they can pull tall gearing and nowdays seem to keep going to 6-6500 revs ?

Anyway an RB30 gives you around half their capacity and FI helps provided you can get the power to the ground .

Having 6L Chev performance comes at some cost and I'm glad I don't have to feed a daily driven one , I'm also glad not to have to sit in a Commode Door because they leave me feeling cold . I'd prefer to drive my R33 because its comfortable and has acceptable styling and street performance levels are subjective anyway . Adequate is enough .

In a way having a "tough car" is a bit like having a psychotic Rotweiller , unpredictable and apt to bite you without warning .

If you really want to do it with a Skyline then its going to take a lot of money and more cubes or an AWD one that can get highly strung power to the ground and a lot of revs .

Ultimately the answer is that Skylines creamed the V8s in race trim 20 yrs ago but road cars compared to race cars are worlds apart . You also have a motoring public here that perceives that ultimately V8s are the pinnacle and even when you beat them it doesn't register .

I think rather than entering a pissing competition you are better off having something YOU like and paying to please yourself rather than everyone else . They can pay for their own entertainment .

A .

[wolverine]

I think rather than entering a pissing competition you are better off having something YOU like and paying to please yourself rather than everyone else

Amen

[GODZILLA-GTR]

Short of owning that particular car, would i be better comparing dynos? Or maybe just read how it feels? Perhaps i should look up manufacturer specs and work out how fast it'll be with weight, torque, power output, aerodynamic drag, tire rolling resistance, driveline and misc power loss.

Grab a speedo vid of a hyundai excel from 80-140 and another vid of an r35 gt-r doing 80-140.. if you can't work out which is faster... well then you must be blind.

I'm not saying it's definitive but it gives something reasonable to compare to. Like GTScotT mentioned, long as the video is on a flat straight road, it's better than comparing dynos or all the BS talk in this thread imho.

As for the OP, most of the info to cheap power upgrades has already been mentioned in this thread i believe. Just do intake, tbe exhaust, turbotech boost controller, fmic and safc for 170ish rwkw. Get some stuff second hand off forums etc and you should be able to get it all done for under 2k bought, installed and tuned. Gotta shop around for your labour rates too though. If you know you're gonna chase more power later then you'd be taking a different path from the beginning however e.g. you wouldn't buy, install and tune a safc as it'll only need to be ditched later.

dunno mate, hyundai excels are pretty quick

[ido09s]

I do agree somewhat I think its the mechanics that are unreliable more than the motor itself, my friend had his rebuilt twice before sending it to a different workshop who got it right, 20k later

It would be like sending your GTR to the local corner workshop for work. Unless they know what they are doing they will get it wrong time and time again.

[GTScotT]

Disco makes some good points.

One thing to note, forced induction is essentially cubes. From my reading, aviation engineers made note that doubling the atmospheric pressure doubled the relevant volumetric efficiency as far as the size of the motor went.

IE, running a bar of boost in a 1bar atmospheric pressure environmet meant the motor had the VE of something twice its size. So, run 2 bar of boost into your RB and have more VE than your said 6L V8.

Its been said already, our bogan blood (not mine) just cant see past the push rod.

[ido09s]

Disco makes some good points.

One thing to note, forced induction is essentially cubes. From my reading, aviation engineers made note that doubling the atmospheric pressure doubled the relevant volumetric efficiency as far as the size of the motor went.

IE, running a bar of boost in a 1bar atmospheric pressure environmet meant the motor had the VE of something twice its size. So, run 2 bar of boost into your RB and have more VE than your said 6L V8.

Its been said already, our bogan blood (not mine) just cant see past the push rod.

I was going to comment on VE but had no idea on what the accepted increase was so left it well alone. Good to see my car is the equivalent of about a 7 litre engine lol

[ARTZ]

because there is no real reason to see past the pushrod cause it has been proven time and time agian it works.. When compared to some of the new tech engines with quad cams and all the other shit, it doesnt make more power only gains in efficiency.. Plus for little efficency you can you have a whole lot of extra parts that can go wrong a alot of extra weight and space needed..to compensate they need to use expensive materials to save weight none of which is cost effecient..

If I want a cam change in a LS engine i only need to change one not 4..

Put simply the LS has had more R & D than any other engine on the planet and it still works and gives everything else a run for its money, add to this it is cheap, lightweight, sounds brilliant on song,can be built in your garden shed and fits into just about any engine bay and it is a deadset winner all round..

Having a turbo doesnt make you a rocket scientest, just makes you a guy that needs FI to compensate for his lack of engine and quite frankly I would swap my old RB25 for an LS anyday

[xALmoN]

with turbos, you get lag too. so nope, it doesn't equal a 6L v8.

maybe maximum power yes, but response? I don't think so.

[ido09s]

with turbos, you get lag too. so nope, it doesn't equal a 6L v8.

maybe maximum power yes, but response? I don't think so.

VE isnt worked out at below the curve, its worked out on full song. Its obvious that off boost you will still have for example an RB26, but once on boost the amount of air it swallows becomes massive and this is obviously where the comparison is made

engine and quite frankly I would swap my old RB25 for an LS anyday

You will have to let us know how the conversion goes then.... there is no better 'anyday' than today

[lilcrash]

I'm not an any side of the fence for the rotary vs piston or the v8 vs turbo debate, a powerful car is just that. I only posted as to what I have seen with my own 2 eyes, as for the rx7( he only drives it once a week, every rebuild he gets a bigger port job and bigger turbo) - stock engine blew seals/too much boost, 1st rebuild over boost blew seals, 2nd rebuild tuner blew it up, 3rd rebuild seals just fell out, changed mechanic after that, 4th rebuild wasnt happy with the power, 5th rebuild water seal blew out an its now a monster port bigger then I've ever seen with a massive turbo with a t6 flange I think he said, aiming for 500hp previously with 400hp he almost smashed into a worked old

Holden on the highway when it started spinning the wheels and he could barely keep it straight. Yes he is a complete dick of a driver. Big revs and dumps the clutch everytime he down shifts to race.

Oh and as for the scales my stagea weighed in at just under 1700kg

Edited July 27, 2011 by lilcrash

[ARTZ]

You will have to let us know how the conversion goes then.... there is no better 'anyday' than today

nah the 25 is alright for now...

also Im not sure my tired old 33 chassis could handle the awesomeness

[ido09s]

So its not entirely the engines fault.

I see 4 engines there that dont have much to do with the design of the engine.

Over boost/to much boost will do that to any engine, though i do under stand that a rotary is a little more delicate,

A dud tuner wil end an engine fast....

seals falling out, well who knows.

Monster porting..... there is a problem there as they wont run to well with very large port jobs. A well designed bridge port motor makes more power than what your mate is asking for through 3 mufflers if your using the right workshop...

[ARTZ]

i must admit if you gave me a 2000 model Rx7,GTR or Monaro to choose from I would take the RX7

[ARTZ]

but if you gave me the 3 engines to choose fromI would take the LS its just so versatile

[AngryRB]

i must admit if you gave me a 2000 model Rx7,GTR or Monaro to choose from I would take the RX7

there is a traitor amongst us!!

An RX7 over a GTR???

Edited July 27, 2011 by SliverS2