Yet Another Training Log.....

[Birds]

Squats are drainers, particularly after deadlifts. I'm more aware of the squat pain during standing bicep curls (I do these straight after), though.

[NickR33]

I never squat and DL in the same session, the lower back pump is too much

[GHOSTrun]

Shame you're not doing Nats Ghosty.

Come and watch at least.

Gonna at least do bust-a-nut 2 in August?

Narh I am not interested in competing in powerlifting and my views on the subject are pretty negative so I won't go into them.

Pretty sure I'll be there to watch and help out where I can and be suportive of fellow lifters though.

Edited June 14, 2012 by GHOSTrun

[GHOSTrun]

Ghosty is mentally strong too. or maybe just mental.

Probably the latter, at times I'm the biggest sooky-la-la, nothing mentally strong there hahaha.

anyone who has tried 20 rep squats even with just body weight will know the pain in the arms, shoulders, back, the lower back.. my god the lower back pump pain...

the pins and needles, the shakes, the lungs.. lol

anytime I do 20s, I have to lie down afterwards.

just so draining.

Yeah the legs handle the weight easy, it's the lower and upper back that fatigue and cause failure. The forearms, wrists and hands start to go numb and when you can't hold the bar tight against your back it wrecks your form and contributes towards failing. It certainly is a tough exercise, but feels so rewarding when you accomplish.

I only did 2 work sets that session, not because that's all I wanted to do, but because if I kept going I would have vommited, and I'm sick of all that shit it's not worth the hassel and waste of food lol.

[TTT]

yes that sound you made is still stuck in my head.. lol

[Birds]

I never squat and DL in the same session, the lower back pump is too much

Do you reckon there's any danger to it? Have thought about putting them on different days, but as I have a split routine, I like to have one day allocated to lower back stuff. I can feel it bad straight after the exercises, but once I've left the gym I'm sweet again.

[GHOSTrun]

Do you reckon there's any danger to it? Have thought about putting them on different days, but as I have a split routine, I like to have one day allocated to lower back stuff. I can feel it bad straight after the exercises, but once I've left the gym I'm sweet again.

I don't see a danger, just lack of performance because you're already fatigued. I mean obvioulsy common sense must prevail, if you try and lift a weight you are not in the state to do so then yeah possiblity of injury, but that should go without saying.

Edited June 14, 2012 by GHOSTrun

[TTT]

starting strength by Mark Rippetoe has sq, bench and dead on one day, then squat OH press and Power clean on the nexrt session.

the bench session between squats and deads allows for your lower back to settle some what.

[Birds]

I might try sticking an exercise between them, it's a good idea. I do this with lat pulldowns between flat bench and incline to give the chest/shoulders a bit of a rest.

I don't see a danger, just lack of performance because you're already fatigued. I mean obvioulsy common sense must prevail, if you try and lift a weight you are not in the state to do so then yeah possiblity of injury, but that should go without saying.

I thought as much. The only concern for me has been whether I'm leaning too far forward during squats because my back is fatigued from deads. My friends have told me it looks fine but the paranoia is there.

[TTT]

long quads usually means leaning forward more.

can't change that.

Do them in a cage and at least you can dump the bar on to the safety bars if needed.

Also, I'd suggest doing deads after squats.

if the back is fatigued, then it's easier to let go of a bar than to get stuck under it if you get what I mean.

Same reason why in powerlifting they have the lifts in the order of Squat (when you're fresh), then a liedown rest for Bench, then Deadlift for all the glory.

[dezz]

I do deads on leg day as I do back the day before and found my lower back DOMS holding me back on squats. So now I squat then calf raise then dead.

Haven't done legs/deads for 3 weeks due to injury so read into that what u want, but I was doing it for a fair while without issue

Seeing a musculoskeletal therapist tonight to see what's up, and hopefully back into the legs ASAP

[rev210]

Are squats supposed to be harder for people with long legs? I hope so...

Good news for you Birds.Are they harder for someone your height? no not really.

I'm 6ft 3 and it's not a problem, I've only just started back on them after a very long break. Squats are just a draining compound movement.

The other day I was doing 130kg (which I had to lift off the deck due to doing them at home = extra work). 2 sets of hack (bar on the upper chest) for 12 reps and 2 sets of regular squats , nice and deep.

I was totally wrecked even though the weight was no trouble but, looking at the Ghosty workout volume makes me feel nauseous.

Edited June 15, 2012 by rev210

[NickR33]

starting strength by Mark Rippetoe has sq, bench and dead on one day, then squat OH press and Power clean on the nexrt session.

the bench session between squats and deads allows for your lower back to settle some what.

Yeah this is good advice

I spread mine out a little more as I have a few other go to movements I like that are real drainers... weighted pull ups/dips, heavy bent over rows or t-bar rows and explosive movements done with kettlebells or dumbbells/barbells... more athletic orientated stuff for speed not just all strength, although that is always the base that the program is designed around

Tue I squatted with bench press and pullups etc... yesterday I started with powercleans, supersetted with OHP then into bent over rows etc... next it might be DL followed by some dumbbell pressing movements, dips (I try not to do too many pull movements after DL as my grip is usually shagged)

anyway enough whoring... back to quadzilla's training log;)

[Birds]

long quads usually means leaning forward more.

can't change that.

Do them in a cage and at least you can dump the bar on to the safety bars if needed.

Also, I'd suggest doing deads after squats.

if the back is fatigued, then it's easier to let go of a bar than to get stuck under it if you get what I mean.

Same reason why in powerlifting they have the lifts in the order of Squat (when you're fresh), then a liedown rest for Bench, then Deadlift for all the glory.

I might try this.

[Birds]

Good news for you Birds.Are they harder for someone your height? no not really.

I'm 6ft 3 and it's not a problem, I've only just started back on them after a very long break. Squats are just a draining compound movement.

The other day I was doing 130kg (which I had to lift off the deck due to doing them at home = extra work). 2 sets of hack (bar on the upper chest) for 12 reps and 2 sets of regular squats , nice and deep.

I was totally wrecked even though the weight was no trouble but, looking at the Ghosty workout volume makes me feel nauseous.

I don't have any issues doing squats (besides the DOMS from doing deadlifts prior), I was just asking if longer legs meant the same weight would require more effort than from someone with short legs...by principles of torque alone I think it's true. It's not a cop out or an excuse not to lift heavier and I'm not trying to take anything away from Mike's workout, just trying to assert a comparison limitation for my own workouts and progress.

[GHOSTrun]

I find deadlifts way more taxing on the CNS than any other lift, when I deadlift it's normally at least 7-10 days+ before my back feels good to do it again (this may be exagerated by two buldging discs and the inflamation etc but that's what I find).

Birds are you squatting/deadlifting primarily for strength or for hypertrophy? If it's the latter, according to a video I watched by Kai Green on BB training, he says the weight is less important, it's more about the muscle contraction and stretch. So if that's your goal, I reckon don't go so heavy that it taxes your CNS a lot, just put enough on so you feel a good stretch and contraction from the lift, you'll probably find you can train it more often then as well and it won't have such a detrimental effect on squats. But I also wouldn't be squatting/deadlifting on the same day if you're moving some decent weight, rather do them on seperate days. For novices it's ok because the weight isn't heavy enough to tax the CNS where it requires extended periods of time to recover, which is what starting strength is aimed it isn't it (beginners)? *although I have read many seasoned lifters still do that routine everynow and then for a change. **I haven't read it so just guessing here.

[NickR33]

great post

definitely something not right with your back to still be sore a week later... but I agree I find DL the most taxing of all the lifts... closely followed by powercleans and the variations... both require a lot of concentration which tires me mentally

[rev210]

I don't have any issues doing squats (besides the DOMS from doing deadlifts prior), I was just asking if longer legs meant the same weight would require more effort than from someone with short legs...by principles of torque alone I think it's true. It's not a cop out or an excuse not to lift heavier and I'm not trying to take anything away from Mike's workout, just trying to assert a comparison limitation for my own workouts and progress.

Sorry birds , meant as an encouragement not as criticism. I think there are swings and roundabouts to the equation as far as limb and muscle dimensions are concerned. Bottom line is I believe you could lift some serious weights if that became a goal for you at any time. The worlds strongest man comp. has a long list of guys taller than you that tend to squat large weights (roids aside). Brian Shaw is 6ft 8. all of them are 6ft or more. Again not that you want to become the unit but, just to say your height is not a disadvantage in any way compared to those of smaller stature.

[GHOSTrun]

[Birds]

Fatty!