Wideband Kits

[No Crust Racing]

You can use the existing o2 sensor location but given both the Innovate and the AEM use the same Bosch sensor which is supposed to be mounted further away from the turbo, it will shorten sensor life. Not the end of the world (only 60-90 to replace) but something to consider if using the stock location for a track car/high boost etc.

[Room42]

Here is some good info. Seems that the bosch sensor is fine in the stock location.

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/02_Tech_Guide_Email_Quality.pdf

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4566.htm

[Hanaldo]

I've had my innovate hooked up for about 3 or 4 months now. You dont need an extra hole in your dump!!! It plugs into the stock location

Everything I have read about sensor placement says the stock location is too close to the turbo?

[No Crust Racing]

Agreed, any o2, either narrow or wide is fine in the stock location on a stock vehicle for quite a while. We're not talking stock vehicles though. Als bare in mind that a narrow band only has to provide a very limited range of measurement so the sensor can take quite a beating and still do this.

Bosch also note that the sensor life is reduced by heat, carbon build up, rich mixtures etc. So it seems logical that moving the sensor a little down stream will increase sensor life for a minimal increase in sensor lag.

I'm happy to follow AEM's advice on having it further downstream as it makes sense to me.

Perhaps that's why Innovates seem to require the free calibration so regularly and have so many issues? Too hot for too long on modified cars (I'm only going on google searches and forum feedback) I cant comment from personal experience.

In reality, I'd hazard a guess and say sensor location is only going to increase/reduce sensor life by a minimal percentage so put it wherever is easiest for you to maintain. If it's an Innovate, feedback tends to imply that putting it somewhere you can remove it easily and free air calibrate it makes sense.

For me the easiest spot was definitely the de-cat pipe.

Edited August 24, 2011 by ActionDan

[sucram]

dam my tail pipe probe came loose last night

where was the $60 sensor from?

[No Crust Racing]

No idea mate as mine came in the kit. eBay prices around 80-90 but I do recall reading that someone got one super cheap through Bursons/AutoBarn/Repco type place. The sensor on it's own is nothing special, just a Bosch 4.2 and they are readily available locally.

[Room42]

Hanaldo I haven't had any probs yet. That's not to say that there wont be any as its only been a few months. In the bosch website they reckon that the sensor has been proven reliable at 1000 degrees celsius. It also mentions that the placement will vary according to the manufacturer. From what I gather the sensor has to stay very hot to burn the carbon off. I dont know exactly how hot that is tho.

[No Crust Racing]

Important to remember mounting angle too, the stock location is great as it doesn't allow moisture to build up easily between the probe and inside of the bung. If you mount it sideways like I did you need to have some angle on it to help stop the moisture build up.

[Room42]

Agreed, any o2, either narrow or wide is fine in the stock location on a stock vehicle for quite a while. We're not talking stock vehicles though. Als bare in mind that a narrow band only has to provide a very limited range of measurement so the sensor can take quite a beating and still do this.

Bosch also note that the sensor life is reduced by heat, carbon build up, rich mixtures etc. So it seems logical that moving the sensor a little down stream will increase sensor life for a minimal increase in sensor lag.

I'm happy to follow AEM's advice on having it further downstream as it makes sense to me.

Perhaps that's why Innovates seem to require the free calibration so regularly and have so many issues? Too hot for too long on modified cars (I'm only going on google searches and forum feedback) I cant comment from personal experience.

In reality, I'd hazard a guess and say sensor location is only going to increase/reduce sensor life by a minimal percentage so put it wherever is easiest for you to maintain. If it's an Innovate, feedback tends to imply that putting it somewhere you can remove it easily and free air calibrate it makes sense.

For me the easiest spot was definitely the de-cat pipe.

If the instructions say put it further down then thats what I would be doing. I only calibrated mine once when I first did the install. The bosch site says the sensors we are talking about have a 100 000k service life. I have wrecked a O2 sensor on a different car I had once (vr commodore) and that was from holding it at redline till the O2 sensor and fuel pump and power steering pump died all at once. If it works further down and is reading accurately and isnt getting carboned up then that would be good enough for me.

[Room42]

Important to remember mounting angle too, the stock location is great as it doesn't allow moisture to build up easily between the probe and inside of the bung. If you mount it sideways like I did you need to have some angle on it to help stop the moisture build up.

True true. When I swapped my stock dump for the hks split dump I'm using now I noticed a lot of moisture build up in there. Even on the exhaust wheel of the turbo.

[No Crust Racing]

I reckon AEM is trying to cover their ass a bit by having it further down to ensure the sensor lasts the warranty period, Bosch on the other hand are producing lovely marketing material with 100,000k service life. Interestingly the AEM manual says 80,000k service life and this is further reduced by heat, leaded fuels, too much oil consumption, etc.

Ultimately, I think it will be an issue my cars next owner deals with.

[SimonR32]

My car goes 1/4 past f**k all km's a year... I have smashed it in stock position

[Hanaldo]

I reckon AEM is trying to cover their ass a bit by having it further down to ensure the sensor lasts the warranty period, Bosch on the other hand are producing lovely marketing material with 100,000k service life. Interestingly the AEM manual says 80,000k service life and this is further reduced by heat, leaded fuels, too much oil consumption, etc.

Ultimately, I think it will be an issue my cars next owner deals with.

Lol yeh, I've done 20xxxkms in three years of owning my car I'm just worried about the sensor becoming less accurate. With no calibration system it seems a bit more of a risk to the AEM than it does to the Innovate.

[No Crust Racing]

Might be worth getting the Innovate for peace of mind then.

If the sensor becomes .1 less accurate in 2 years (which for me would be about 6000ks of driving if I'm lucky) then that's fine. It's not tuned on the ragged edge where that much if a difference would matter anyway.

If you are really concerned about safety and accuracy then you'd be better of buying a higher grade kit anyway.

[Room42]

I use my car every day. I reckon I've done nearly 10 000k's since I bought it back in march. What can I say, I like driving.

[No Crust Racing]

I don't drive mine much on the street, too modified and not cop friendly. I save it for the track

I wish I'd driven mine 10,000k's lol

[Room42]

I don't drive mine much on the street, too modified and not cop friendly. I save it for the track

I wish I'd driven mine 10,000k's lol

I think you guys get a hard time from cops over there. I haven't been pulled over once. My car does look totally stock tho.

(:EDIT: Apart from the front mount.) Also there is traffic out the arse in Perth at any given time so you don't really get looked at over here. I swapped my qld license to a wa one and I was worried I couldn't drive my car here cos it's turbo and they put me on my p's for one day. They're like nope no difference if its a turbo and no power limit either.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Room42

[No Crust Racing]

Vic and NSW are pretty tough. The things people get defected for here are ridiculous. It's just not worth risking it. If you drive anything modified (import or not) you are treated like a criminal. I'm almost 30, work in a white collar job, well spoken and always polite to police (full license too) but if I get pulled over in the Silvia I am treated far worse than if I get pulled over in my BF Falcon (Daily).

I'm one of the "good" ones too, very little street driving, take the car to the track, next to no "hooning" of any kind on the street and if I do I'm testing something out the back of town.

But, to be fair, "we" as in the performance community have made our own bed by being idiots on the road (I used to be that person years ago in my first R33 and then my GT-R). So I don't begrudge the law for trying to stop idiots being idiots. I just accept that if I want to really enjoy my car properly, I have to take it to the track. Ever since I started doing that I've had no issues plus I can just smash the shit out of it all day and never worry about cops, traffic, etc. I much prefer the freedom, just not the cost.

[Room42]

Vic and NSW are pretty tough. The things people get defected for here are ridiculous. It's just not worth risking it. If you drive anything modified (import or not) you are treated like a criminal. I'm almost 30, work in a white collar job, well spoken and always polite to police (full license too) but if I get pulled over in the Silvia I am treated far worse than if I get pulled over in my BF Falcon (Daily).

I'm one of the "good" ones too, very little street driving, take the car to the track, next to no "hooning" of any kind on the street and if I do I'm testing something out the back of town.

But, to be fair, "we" as in the performance community have made our own bed by being idiots on the road (I used to be that person years ago in my first R33 and then my GT-R). So I don't begrudge the law for trying to stop idiots being idiots. I just accept that if I want to really enjoy my car properly, I have to take it to the track. Ever since I started doing that I've had no issues plus I can just smash the shit out of it all day and never worry about cops, traffic, etc. I much prefer the freedom, just not the cost.

Yeah cops can be unfair with their defects. I'm similar to you in that I just turned 31, full license and don't hoon on the road. Its just not worth the risk. Really you can only floor it in 1st and 2nd then its all over. The nearest place to open it up safely (no traffic) is over an hour drive from Perth and even then the speed limit is still 110. Gotta test the wideband somewhere tho. My car hasn't seen any track time yet but it might one day. It is still stock height and stock rims. It looks the same as it did from the factory. Just new paint, that's it.

[No Crust Racing]

It is still stock height and stock rims. It looks the same as it did from the factory. Just new paint, that's it.

I reckon this is the best thing to do sometimes. Which is hard, because the stock rims aren't that flash and don't allow for very big rubber.

I honestly think if there were easier access to places where people could hoon (drift, drag, burnout etc) that didn't cost a fortune more people would take it off the street. The problem is insurance for the venue, having people sign liability waivers doesn't seem to be enough anymore. People are too quick to point the finger at somebody else for their own stupidity.

Edited August 24, 2011 by ActionDan