Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I totally agree with your first point, but not everyone has money/needs/wants F40/F50 or any other a/m caliper, because stock calipers are OK for light track work, and while I hate soft and mushy pedal myself, it can still be improved somewhat with MCS and braided lines.

Please dont get me wrong it will be better - but it is not going to be perfect by any means.

I bought some second hand F40's with brackets. The gain from the basic R32 gear to that , even with a 324 rotor is a good one. The cost doesnt have to be huge either.

the #2 - sumitomo pad area is small. Why not to use larger pad that fits the caliper? Is there some working penalty to this? Given the same friction compound, braking force won't change, cause area is irrelevant to force, but heat transfer, heat generation and distribution will be better in larger pad. Or Am I getting it wrong?

Yes you may make a small gain - but the difference in pad size will only be a small one too. If you have a look at the photo I posted you will see where the smaller pad has broken up. I found this to be not uncommon at a track day - so I was paying again & again for pads. Some cheaper pads (no names, sorry) would, once they got too hot, lose their friction coefficient and nothing I could do would get it back.

Please dont get me wrong it will be better - but it is not going to be perfect by any means.

I bought some second hand F40's with brackets. The gain from the basic R32 gear to that , even with a 324 rotor is a good one. The cost doesnt have to be huge either.

Yes you may make a small gain - but the difference in pad size will only be a small one too. If you have a look at the photo I posted you will see where the smaller pad has broken up. I found this to be not uncommon at a track day - so I was paying again & again for pads. Some cheaper pads (no names, sorry) would, once they got too hot, lose their friction coefficient and nothing I could do would get it back.

Funny enough, I ended up buying some F50's myself. But mainly 'cause I found them for cheap, if it wasn't for that opportunity, I would have been using sumitomos with larger rotors and larger pads, as per my initial plan.

Aren't 324mm rotors too thin for F40's?

It's not the first time you post this photo, is it? I've seen it several years ago and saved in to my hard disk for a reference of pad sizes, so thank you very much for that :D

May I ask where was that delamination occuring? Was it the area under leading or trailing pistons?

Funny enough, I ended up buying some F50's myself. But mainly 'cause I found them for cheap, if it wasn't for that opportunity, I would have been using sumitomos with larger rotors and larger pads, as per my initial plan.

Aren't 324mm rotors too thin for F40's?

Nah they are fine. I went the F40's because they matched the piston area of the Brembos from the 33's. They use the same pads as the BA Falcons with four pots Brembos so they are a good thing IMHO. I have often wondered if the Ex Falcon Brembos could be adopted for the front of the GT-R's - makes more sense than the Emo Brembo idea. Never really persued it as I had the callipers anyway.

It's not the first time you post this photo, is it? I've seen it several years ago and saved in to my hard disk for a reference of pad sizes, so thank you very much for that :D

May I ask where was that delamination occuring? Was it the area under leading or trailing pistons?

I probably have used it before. It was one of the things I had in my mind when looking for a calliper. Would have been a better photo if it had have been in focus.

It was a case of more pad area, larger effective radius & more airflow (from the larger rotor size). Win, win, win. THe thing actually stops now and I dont destroy a set of pads every couple outings. Down side is I cannot find a reliable source in the States to import the Ferodo Ds2500 from - part number FRP3028H/FDSR3028 (without the cutout I thinK). I did briefly find one but they went bust. >_<

Cant remember where the delamination was to be frank. I would guess on the rear of the pad as logically that is where it would be the hottest.

Edited by djr81

I run F50s on my R32 with 355mm rotors and it's a pretty good set-up. not as good as a nice set of alcons but it doesn't cost $10K either... it's certainly a shitload better than running the sumitomos. putting bigger pads that stick out of the caliper is just a waste of time. if you want to stick with the sumitomos then by all means run the 324mm rotor upgrade, good pads and braided lines but getting pads that stick out is not going to do anything. you do get a gain in simple leverage and heat capacity with the larger rotor but if you need more then you really need new calipers, 33/34GTR brembos are the next step up and are a much better caliper than the sumi's and have bigger pads after that you need F40/F50 and if that's not enough then it's time to open your wallet wide.

I have often wondered if the Ex Falcon Brembos could be adopted for the front of the GT-R's - makes more sense than the Emo Brembo idea. Never really persued it as I had the callipers anyway.

I posted the piston sizes a while back when a friend bought a set and I grabbed them to measure up. The were something like 48/44, they were a lot bigger then F50 calipers in the piston size. Means you would have to go for pretty big rear 4 pot calipers and play with master cylinders.

The best thing about the F40/F50/ST40 etc is that they are only 4 pot. So all the cool kids bin them and go for supposed "far better 6 pot" option :( So if you hunt around you can get some real good buys. For about $1500-200 you can get some F40s with brackets to suit 324mm rotor. If you find that you still struggle, or upgrade to more power/grip etc then just pony up for a new set of 343 or 355mm rotors etc and throw the F40s on them.

I currently have a pretty basic 4 pot setup using new 343mm rotors that all fit under a 17" wheel. It didnt cost the earth and for what I do with the car is almost perfect. Alomost because I wish I still had F40s rather then the Stoptech ST40, as whilst the Stoptech caliper is a slighly nicer thing being forged rather then cast, a slightly better bridge design...the pad availability is not even close to being as good as the F40/50 range of calipers

I posted the piston sizes a while back when a friend bought a set and I grabbed them to measure up. The were something like 48/44, they were a lot bigger then F50 calipers in the piston size. Means you would have to go for pretty big rear 4 pot calipers and play with master cylinders.

Ah ok. damn. Not like the F50 is short on piston area anywway.

The best thing about the F40/F50/ST40 etc is that they are only 4 pot. So all the cool kids bin them and go for supposed "far better 6 pot" option :( So if you hunt around you can get some real good buys. For about $1500-200 you can get some F40s with brackets to suit 324mm rotor. If you find that you still struggle, or upgrade to more power/grip etc then just pony up for a new set of 343 or 355mm rotors etc and throw the F40s on them.

Yeah the cool kids wont even talk to me anymore. :closedeyes:

I currently have a pretty basic 4 pot setup using new 343mm rotors that all fit under a 17" wheel. It didnt cost the earth and for what I do with the car is almost perfect. Alomost because I wish I still had F40s rather then the Stoptech ST40, as whilst the Stoptech caliper is a slighly nicer thing being forged rather then cast, a slightly better bridge design...the pad availability is not even close to being as good as the F40/50 range of calipers

Dont worry about the F40s Troy. They are being looked after. :cheers:

post-5134-0-15345000-1315453519_thumb.jpg

Edited by djr81

By the way anyone imported Ferodo DS2500's recently?

Not imported, no. The last set I bought from PBP just before I took the 32 off the road ~18 months ago, cost about $550 for fronts and rears.

you tried these guys for DS2500s DJR? http://www.zeckhausen.com/Brembo/GT1_Pads.htm

pad choice for F40/F50s is probably second to none. all the euro stuff is available, so is the US stuff and even the japanese stuff is all made in F40/F50 pad shapes.

as far as the cool kids go, they most often mistake my F50s with 355mm rotors for stock R33 brembos... lol definitely no cred, especially since they fit under my 17inch LMGT4s...

BTW a handy pic for all the F40 and F50 club members. it lists the projec mu part numbers and also kindly lists the compatible part number amongst a number of other pad makers. :)

F1040.gif

you tried these guys for DS2500s DJR? http://www.zeckhausen.com/Brembo/GT1_Pads.htm

pad choice for F40/F50s is probably second to none. all the euro stuff is available, so is the US stuff and even the japanese stuff is all made in F40/F50 pad shapes.

as far as the cool kids go, they most often mistake my F50s with 355mm rotors for stock R33 brembos... lol definitely no cred, especially since they fit under my 17inch LMGT4s...

Cheers. Cant make sense of their pharken part numbers. 63-360-0810 ??? Guess an email is in order.

Also see here:

http://www.ferodoracing.com/catalogue/detail_car_racing.php?cat=brake_pads&code=FRP3028

http://www.ferodoracing.com/catalogue/detail_car_tuning.php?code=FDSR3028&cat=brake_pads

Oh and it may pay to be carefull on the pad thickness. You can get 16 or 18mm. From memory the 16mm just fit on a 30mm rotor.

The knowledgable cool kids look at my bucket of bolts and say stuff like V-spec 1, yeah? Sorry mate this one is the poverty pack. They assume the calliper is the stock Vspec jobbie.

Edited by djr81

Thats the good thing about the black Brembo setups. They look std. If i could find a place that I trust to do cold anodising thats what i want to do to mine...fir the time being fronts are red, rears are black. My old Sumitomo setup was blue and looked more aftermarket, but then again my Greddys were gold,. APs black, Alcons red etc etc :)

Actually, if someone wants a kick ass Alcon setup let me know. i forgot i had them under the bed :)

you tried these guys for DS2500s DJR? http://www.zeckhausen.com/Brembo/GT1_Pads.htm

pad choice for F40/F50s is probably second to none. all the euro stuff is available, so is the US stuff and even the japanese stuff is all made in F40/F50 pad shapes.

as far as the cool kids go, they most often mistake my F50s with 355mm rotors for stock R33 brembos... lol definitely no cred, especially since they fit under my 17inch LMGT4s...

I got this back from Zeckhausen.

The DS2500 pads we carry for the Brembo F40/F50 is the FCP1281H, which has the sensor slot, but is 18mm thick. The 16mm version is special order and costs $254.

So now I need to work out if the 18mm pad will fit a 30mm rotor/F40 calliper or I just fkd up last time I fitted pads and hadnt pushed the pistons all the way back.

Of some note is the rotor on the Falcon is 32mm thick & they use a 16mm pad.

I guess the questions is: will an 18mm pad fit?

Perversely if you go through the part numbers the pad fits the rear of an R35.

Edited by djr81

that is ridiculous. 18mm pad (so more material), with slot (more finishing cost) is $189 vs a 16mm pad with no slot being $254.

v interesting they are the same as R35 rears. that means any remaining japanese pad maker that doesn't make F40/50 pads yet will be making them soon.

let me know if the 18mm pads fit. I'm sure they will. another 4mm pad shouldn't wreck things. also what thickness rotor are you using? 32mm?

that is ridiculous. 18mm pad (so more material), with slot (more finishing cost) is $189 vs a 16mm pad with no slot being $254.

v interesting they are the same as R35 rears. that means any remaining japanese pad maker that doesn't make F40/50 pads yet will be making them soon.

let me know if the 18mm pads fit. I'm sure they will. another 4mm pad shouldn't wreck things. also what thickness rotor are you using? 32mm?

To them it is a special order or something - hence the stuff around. The ridiculous thing is the $500 the yocals want for the damn things.

Using a 324x30. Just wanting to know if anyone has used an 18mm pad on a 30 or a 32 rotor with a F40/F50 calliper. Someone must have tried it, knowingly or otherwise.

Does the rear on an R35 have a wear sensor - I dont think it does?

not sure if R35 has pad wear sensors, they might.

you would think if the 18inch pad is going to fit anything it'll fit with a 30 but I guess they make the thicker pads to fit cars using these calipers on the rear with little 20 odd mm thick rotors...

maybe try a quick measure if you have a caliper around? 30mm for rotor, 36mm or pack, plus backing, plus piston protrusion = ?

or wait for someone who's tried the 18s or even better buy some and be the guinea pig for the rest of us. and yeah $500 is nuts. at the moment there is project mu titan HC pads for F50s on ebay for less than $200 and they are a good pad too.

Rear brakes on many cars have rotors 28mm thick, I reckon that's the reason for 18mm thick pads.

I don't think 18mm pads can be used with 30mm rotor, they may be 1mm too thick. But with the price and availability difference like mentioned above - $190 for common and easy to find 18mm pads vs. $250+ for a rare 16mm set I would not hesitate to grind off 1mm of friction material from each pad end enjoy the ride

using a db1346 pad from a v6 4 runner has a fair bit deeper anulas. and are thicker by about 2mm per pad. so, if using a GTR caliper on the 324x30 upgrade you get thicker pads and a better contact area. hawk do a perfomance compound. ferodo ds2500 is very old hat. there are many better comounds and brands available. pfc for one. also cheaper...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I bought the model back in Japan in Feb. I realised I could never build it, looked around for people who could build it, turns out there's some very skilled people out there that will make copies of 1:1 cars or near enough. I'm not really a photo guy... but people were dragging me in a group chat for the choice of bumper as someone else saw the car before it was finished as they are also a customer of that shop. I took the photo in the above post because I was pretty confident that the lip would work wonders for it. Here's some more in-progress and almost-done pics. It gives a good enough idea as to what the rear looks like!   I have also booked in a track day at the end of January. Lets all hope that is nothing but pure fun and games. If it's not pure fun and games, well, I've already got half an engine spare in the cupboard 
    • Well, do ya, punk? Seriously though, let's fu<king go! The colour and kit looks amazing on the car. Do you have any shots from the rear? I don't quite follow how the model came around. You bought the white kit and he modified it to match your car? Looks nuts either way!
    • So my car is finally back from paint! This took an absolutely insane amount of work and should get it's own build thread - but I didn't build it. It was completed by Troy @ https://scalekustoms.com.au/ I originally bought the AOSHIMA URAS Type R kit while I was in Japan, it's supposed to look like this when assembled: Now, I thought that was cool enough until I opened the box with Dismay, as there's no way I could possibly have completed it. The thing is 1/24 and has details down to the steering wheel horn button, which is a 2mm diameter sticker. I originally wondered if someone could make it at all, as is - But then things got a little carried away. It's worth noting that the model does not have an openable bonne, let alone engine bay, OR an openable boot. - Troy has worked wonders with 3D printer and presumably better eyes than I will ever have. My photos suck, so I will post up some of his in-progress ones he sent to me during the way. Unsuprisingly, he is very detailed. A lot of these are out of order. But he: 1) Made a LS engine and an engine bay appear out of thin air 2) Made the bonnet removable 3) Printed the rims I will buy in the future (or any rim you want) 4) Printed and added the wing that is going on 5) Tinted my back windows as this is what my car has IRL (privacy glass) 6) Added a licence plate. 7) Somehow did the interior 8) 3D Printed my actual seats 9) Made the exhaust under the car connect even though this is likely invisible. 10) Created a boot with my fking battery box, power steering reservoir, subwoofer and toolboxes back there. To say it's insane is an understatement. And I f**ked it all up because when I was re-mounting the wing (it broke in transit) I spilled glue everywhere and ripped paint up and Gregged the rear half of the car. Which about makes sense. Also, this arrived on the same day. Quite the change from: I spent 16 hours per day over the next 3 days pre-christmas putting the interior back together, mounting lip, fixing various bodykit problems with window mouldings, etc. and servicing, rebuilding my 370z brakes to go on the car 'soon', messing with heights to check clearances for new wheels, etc. I also had a foray into mounting wiper-mounted washer jets which was an absolute disaster. The bodyshop has welded (and painted) over the stock jet locations for reasons unknown to everybody (i.e they forgot) I also wanted to wire in the oil pressure sensor on Christmas Eve which was a BAD IDEA. You do not know terror like pulling your ECU apart, pinning in half-fitting pins that aren't the right ones, but trying anyway because it's Christmas eve, putting your ECU back together and having a no-start condition with a fuel pump not priming. Then you undo all your work and the fuel pump still doesn't prime. So after all that terror and horror and pain and tedious disassembly, the issue was the relay in the boot which seems to have died/stuck when I was turning the car off and on about 700 times testing shitty washer jets. I also re-wired the fuel pump power plug which fell apart in my hands. I am very happy I had 3 extra pre-made ones from a few posts/last Christmas's breakdown. https://bluewireautomotive.com/products/10-x-pcm-ecm-ecu-terminals I have put an order for these in, so I can actually add the pins to the ECU properly. The commodore ECU does not have the pins for Oil Pressure via ODB2. However the ECU can support it if you create the pins and wire them in. So for round two, and somehow attempting to route that into the engine bay through my impossible engine bay grommet is a fight for another day. It's 40C in Melbourne tomorrow, I am half tempted to drive the car with the aircon on to deliver presents to my partner's family and see if it helps with the overheating-on-40C-days-in-traffic-with-aircon-on-only issue that the vents were intended to solve. Do I feel lucky?
    • Yes, while being... strictly unnecessary. Tuning is a bit like quantum physics. You don't need to understand what Schroedinger's equation actually means. You just need to run the computation and accept the answers. With tuning, you just push page up/down until the exhaust tells you that you've got the fuel right. The VE can stay hidden behind the curtain like the Wizard of Oz and you'll never need to know what he looked like.
    • The second part yes, the first part about easy VE calculation is something I've seen a few people talk about online.
×
×
  • Create New...