Eoi: In-Car Computer Kits

[SKITTLES]

So I'm thinking of doing some research and some bulk purchasing from various companies to put together an awesome kit for an in-car computer system.

The in-car computer will completely replace your existing stereo, providing music/video, GPS, bluetooth (to sync with your phone, or whatever you want), 3G and real-time data from your nissan consult, all running off either a double-din, or fold-out single-din touch screen.

O/S will be a lightweight Linux distro optimized for touch screens that will have multi-tasking capabilities (so you can run GPS while you play music with minimal lag/problems). I haven't thought about DE's or WM's but even panels/docks, but a pypanel+openbox like setup seems to go alright.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

Would anyone be interested?

They will come as a DIY kit, or I could install it for you. I'll get all the parts I need and do a demo in my car before I start selling.

[bentwagon]

Hmm, watching this topic with interest...

[Carbon 34]

you can pretty much do all that and more with a IPAD2 indash now ?( but Linux is much better then Apple stability lol)

I think your behind the curve in car PC IMO

sorry

[palmer]

Im keen. Keep me posted

[SKITTLES]

yeah I've just started looking into it...

iPad 2 FTL... and nissan consult looks like it might cause some problems. Thinking about Windows running centrifuge.

Compared to other car manufactures systems, this is inferior, but there isn't much you can get for a Skyline.

Just out of curiousity, Troy... in what way do you feel I'm behind the curve? Just so I know where to improve on.

Edit: when I say "iPad 2 FTL", I mean you're looking at a $700+ system that will require an existing head unit to link to the incar speakers. It's better to have a cheap, built-in computer running a lightweight distro of some description (windows, Linux, haven't looked into it so I can't say 100%... btu Windows touch-screen compatibility is pretty good).

That said, the system I'm building will probably cost more than an iPad, but itll be cusotmizable and extendible.

Edited September 20, 2011 by SKITTLES

[iseekool]

CarPC is lots of effort. But you could have a potentially superior product in the end.

But here are some pointers that may assist.

- Most importand is a good quality 12v to 12v PSU with time delay and some sort of battery power for shutdown sequence - this is because of voltage not being so stable in the car.

- SSD for the OS and main software is a must

- OS wise I'd go Windows 7 - Reason being its just easier for anybody to work on it and you will have less issues with drivers - so much more support or run Windows CE for fast startup/shut down (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/evaluate/windows-embedded-automotive-7.aspx)

- Aim for a fanless design, ensure it will operate in extreme heat

- Try to have a system that can process 1080p video.

- Having a touch screen is a must have - and it must also be able to function in the Australian heat.

- Must have bluetooth so you can use a smart phone as your connection to the internet.

- You will need an external usb tuner for radio, tv, GPS

- You will still need an external amp for sound.

[SKITTLES]

CarPC is lots of effort. But you could have a potentially superior product in the end.

But here are some pointers that may assist.

- Most importand is a good quality 12v to 12v PSU with time delay and some sort of battery power for shutdown sequence - this is because of voltage not being so stable in the car.

- SSD for the OS and main software is a must

- OS wise I'd go Windows 7 - Reason being its just easier for anybody to work on it and you will have less issues with drivers - so much more support or run Windows CE for fast startup/shut down (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/evaluate/windows-embedded-automotive-7.aspx)

- Aim for a fanless design, ensure it will operate in extreme heat

- Try to have a system that can process 1080p video.

- Having a touch screen is a must have - and it must also be able to function in the Australian heat.

- Must have bluetooth so you can use a smart phone as your connection to the internet.

- You will need an external usb tuner for radio, tv, GPS

- You will still need an external amp for sound.

Thanks heaps mate! I didn't think of the power thing... would have been a crossroad later. Probably be better to go for a battery-powered device that hibernates when the AC is removed, then turns off when the battery get's to 50% or less.

Automatic power on will be interesting...

Windows CE sounds alright... I don't really think very highly of it. I'll have to research it more...

Fanless design is piss easy, and I'll find a touch screen that works fine no worries. I was going to throw in a 3G dongle, and set the computer up to use it. It'll require a sim card, but you can easily put it in and dial up to your interwebs. that could be an optional extra lol but bluetooth will definitely be in there so people can take calls from it.

Didn't think of radio... lol... I'm going to need to be able to control the antenna too hmmm... interesting.

Yeah amp is a definite.

Some thoughts that come to mind; 1080p video playback will a gfx card of some description.. I was thinking of running an intel atom processor. If I beef it up too much, you'll see an increase in price. I'll go over my options with small-form PCs and their processors VS cost, but yeah, it'll probably be best with 720p video.

I'm looking around for a device with a disk drive.. not very successful -.-

Big project is getting bigger haha

[jrm]

I've been doing the carpc thing for going on 10 years now, and I'm onto about my 3rd or 4th major re-design. I suggest for you hop over to http://mp3car.com for a whole forum dedicated to this stuff.

I'd pretty much agree with everything iseekool has said other than the comments around SSD & fanless. I will admit the price of SSD is a lot cheaper than the last time I built a carpc, but it's still probably un-necessary, and probably means you're going to need a second drive for storage. You can happily use very large 2.5" laptop hard drives (I've done so for many years without issues, within 20cm of a pair of 12" subwoofers - they never skip a bit (Do make sure you get 7200rpm for performance). I personally haven't found fans a big of an issue; you definitely need to make sure the machine gets plenty of ventilation. The last thing you want is the carpc shutting itself off on a 10+ hour interstate drive because it got a bit warm when you have a lot of luggage in the boot.

I use a cutdown Windows XP build (it boots quicker than 7), and centrafuse. It's using an Intel D945GCLF2 motherboard (dual core atom 330) with 2GB of RAM, and a 500GB 7200rpm 2.5" laptop drive, BU-353 GPS. Up front I'm using a xenarc touchscreen with in-built DVD drive. This item is probably my only bugbear, and probably the only component I'd change right now (move to an optically bonded sunlight readable screen).

Whilst I can't do full-screen 1080p playback, the screen doesn't fit 1080p on it anyway (and you'd be hard-pressed to tell it's 1080p vs 720p on a 7" screen anyway). I'm more than happy with the 720p I get with the onboard GPU.

With regards power-supply, I use an M2-ATX 160W intelligent power-supply. It has all the 12V -> ATX power options you need - auto-start-up, auto-shutdown, amplifier activation (you could use this to activate an antenna, if you used a relay, but then it would be up all the time the carpc was..), etc.

I don't really bother with bluetooth, I don't talk on the phone in the car, and I never listen to the radio so I haven't bothered there either. I used to use a 3G dongle to get internet, but given how rarely I'd use it, I stopped - it was just a waste of money. I could probably easily do something with bluetooth/wireless to supply internet to the carpc from my phone, but eh - as above. It's not a feature you need/use much in my experience.

[johnd320]

Great insights Jenna. We can all benefit from your experience in this field.

[SKITTLES]

Great insights Jenna. We can all benefit from your experience in this field.

@JEnna; thanks for your insight.. I'll definitely be in contact with you about the project

A couple of things... computer in the boot is interesting; I was going to mount behind the dash. The boot sounds like a better idea, and opens me up for case mods that integrate with my planned sound system. I like your thinking

1080p; thanks for bringing up that point. I was thinking the same thing about not telling the difference between 720 and 1080, but largely because the screens that are available won't be able to display things like a samsung TV would. Didn't think about aspect ratio either... But that doesn't impede on the design of the system as all screens are essentially going to be 7" i believe.

I want to keep slightly updated with Windows, but I'm worried about the demand win7 would have. If it came down to it, I was thinking about a trimmed down version of XP i found on a torrent site not too long ago if Windows CE didn't do as I wanted.

I was hoping for an android powered system... that would be amazing... but too limiting.

Agreed about lack of use with 3G... I was just thinking of an all inclusive system.

Thanks for the recommendation aobut the psu too, i'll look into it.

I was thinking about making the antenna usb-powered and custom write something to pop it up... not 100% sure how as I haven't had experience, but I was going to see what Ic ould do... HMMMMMMMMM exciting projects are ahead. ><

[iseekool]

Another possible solution (ugly).

Buy a decent laptop + docking station.

Have the docking station mounted in your boot with all the accessories (tuners, GPS dongle, in-cabin touch screen) connected to it and the audio routed to a head unit with aux-in or a dedicated amp.

The docking station is then wired to a DC to DC transformer to "up" or "down" the voltage from the car's 12V system.

Cost wise this will be much easier IMHO.

[jrm]

100% agree with the above. My first CarPC experience was done exactly this - notebook with docking station along with a super-cheap chinese indash touchscreen. When the computer saw the mains loss, it was set to power-down. If you're just starting out, this could be an easy approach. It also has the benefit of having all of the parts designed for that sort of scenario, and if something goes wrong, you can pull out the notebook and it has it's own screen to fix it. Also has a lot of the fancier stuff like bluetooth, wifi, etc built-in. I had audio on mine routed to the aux-in on my headunit which then routed to the amplifiers. It all worked surprisingly well.

[iseekool]

100% agree with the above. My first CarPC experience was done exactly this - notebook with docking station along with a super-cheap chinese indash touchscreen. When the computer saw the mains loss, it was set to power-down. If you're just starting out, this could be an easy approach. It also has the benefit of having all of the parts designed for that sort of scenario, and if something goes wrong, you can pull out the notebook and it has it's own screen to fix it. Also has a lot of the fancier stuff like bluetooth, wifi, etc built-in. I had audio on mine routed to the aux-in on my headunit which then routed to the amplifiers. It all worked surprisingly well.

+ the joy of 1 to 2 year warranty that comes with the notebook, the event it breaks down

[sonnyQ]

I was very keen on exploring this idea, especially considering the capabilities of today's mobile tech such as tablets and eeepc's etc. After looking into the idea somewhat, I just went with a JVC double din that has ALL the functionality listed above (bluetooth, GPS, video, radio, ipod etc) Only thing it lacks is web browsing (which I use my smart phone for) hi-res video support and the inability to read anything other than FAT32 which limits storage capabilities. At the end of the day it looks flush, runs off factory power and has more functionality than I need. It's a glorified mp3 head unit for the most part

Unless you are using it in a car holiday car, I don't think the effort (and cost) to set up a CarPC is worth it tbh. However, I definitely see the attraction and 'cool' factor with such a project and would be keen to see some outcomes =)

[Carbon 34]

yeah I've just started looking into it...

iPad 2 FTL... and nissan consult looks like it might cause some problems. Thinking about Windows running centrifuge.

Compared to other car manufactures systems, this is inferior, but there isn't much you can get for a Skyline.

Just out of curiousity, Troy... in what way do you feel I'm behind the curve? Just so I know where to improve on. (the reason I say that is most people cant' fiddle with linux or even window 7 when a driver fails to load so its not user friendly) You can run a security risk of over running your 3G/wifi connection if you get hacked costing you a mountain of cash , it takes a few min to hack into a system and reset all the accounts /passwords.

all the little bits that plug in to the system creates missmatch signals output and voltage issues , computer audio isn't setup to punch car amps to a max volume without a pre amp.

the Ipad/Other tables can bluetooth your Consult cable wireless. app and hardware exists already for nissans. you have access to all the sensors and can even reset warnings on cars that have service lights etc.

you dont need a head unit for Ipads or Iphones, only a break out cable to charge and output video, audio digtial /analog ,

Ipads are dummy proof lol

you can make them to be removed in shady areas with a fake factory radio as a back plate to hide the fact you have a big setup . you dont' need to run Harddrives, but you can run a wireless one in the boot with a few Terabytes of movies.music .

you instantly have 3G/GPS tracking device with Ipads. if you buy the top models.

you can stream off your iphone to ipad. you can turn on the camera on the ipad remotely out of the box to video your thief at the wheel.

you have a G sensor built in to the ipads.

you have HD video , if they unlock pandora app for australia things would be even better. but you can use another similar app

the ipad and parts take up very littel space compared to a incar pc.

you can control your car alarm with app.

I did use a laptop with all the bits in the past running a XP cut down and Media interace to a head unit ... and Jenna has a setup that works, but both of us as extensive IT knowledge . and it wasnt a quick process to setup

I just find its a lot more work and can get fussy if a person installs it wrong. engine noise is a huge issue in most cases.

apple is more secure so far.

and can be used outside the car for a lite laptop if you make it removable ?

I just think a incar pc is beyond most average installers , so unless your going to install it as well. its going to be a nightmare . cost wise it just doesnt make sense to put a car pc in . when nice double din head units cover most needs . and the tablets cover the rest .

Edit: when I say "iPad 2 FTL", I mean you're looking at a $700+ system that will require an existing head unit to link to the incar speakers. It's better to have a cheap, built-in computer running a lightweight distro of some description (windows, Linux, haven't looked into it so I can't say 100%... btu Windows touch-screen compatibility is pretty good).

That said, the system I'm building will probably cost more than an iPad, but itll be cusotmizable and extendible.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Carbon 34

[iseekool]

^ Good point. iPad (or even any other tablet) could be a good option come to think of it.

Going off topic slightly - I don't own an iPad or any other tablet.

Does iPad have software you can stream audio/video from any shared network drive?

[sonnyQ]

^ Good point. iPad (or even any other tablet) could be a good option come to think of it.

Going off topic slightly - I don't own an iPad or any other tablet.

Does iPad have software you can stream audio/video from any shared network drive?

I would assume theres an app for it. Tablets would be a good compomise between a media pc and notebook, but you would be limited to apps only.

What would be your choice of wireless stream? My head deck streams bluetooth from my phone and it struggles with higher bitrate MP3's

[Hanaldo]

With the iPad software... Is this compatible with Nissan CONSULT yet?? I know there is tonnes of OBDII support around, but hadn't found anything that will connect to CONSULT yet?

Not that I've really been looking, I use NIStune myself. Just a bit interested if Apple or any other software makers would cater to the minority needs of Nissan drivers wanting to connect to their CONSULT port.

[bigkevracer]

^ Good point. iPad (or even any other tablet) could be a good option come to think of it.

Going off topic slightly - I don't own an iPad or any other tablet.

Does iPad have software you can stream audio/video from any shared network drive?

There is a couple of apps, very frustrating it isn't standard

Interesting project, I'll keep an eye out. I would have loved a blu-ray player in my car, not so much so I can watch HD, but so I can watch all the movies I've got on blu-ray, even if it is downsampled to 720p. This sounds like it has the potential to give me that ability, so keep us posted!

[Carbon 34]

There is a couple of apps, very frustrating it isn't standard

Interesting project, I'll keep an eye out. I would have loved a blu-ray player in my car, not so much so I can watch HD, but so I can watch all the movies I've got on blu-ray, even if it is downsampled to 720p. This sounds like it has the potential to give me that ability, so keep us posted!

you can use a blue ray player out of a PC in a car, easy to mod

most APPS use bluetooth dongles to get info , its very common in north america magazines , on 350Z and 370Z and canadian imported Skylines