Maximum Power With Safc 2?

[KiwiRS4T]

Honestly you are wasting your time with the SAFC. Will your auto still be ok with the Z32 ecu? If so get the Nistune and learn to tune on that . If not you will need an E-Mangage or an F-Con - some kind of piggy-back with a little more control than the SAFC.

[K-LESS]

Might seem like a waste of time. But I picked up the Safc 2 for next to nothing. And if people have managed to run there cars with improved over all driveability on them and been happy with it then theres no reason to fork out hundreds or thousands of dollars for a full on aftermarket ecu. My cars not auto it is manual.

I did take my car for a drive last night around the block with all my new bits installed on it. And it seems to be running very nicely. Does seem to have a couple of flat spots before 4500 rpm. So If I can compromise with the safc and iron out that flat spots to the best I can I might be happy with it and not need to go for a full aftermarket ecu. I would love to get a power fc but they are getting very expensive and rear. I would most probably go nistune later on and try tune that myself. I have my doubts about link. I know the g4 is much better than their previous products but it still only has 3 ignition drivers which to me cant be good for car that runs six seperate coil packs.

At the end of the day I would love to get a aftermarket ecu straight away but money doesnt grow on tree's and I also have other commitments like saving for a house and bla bla bla.

[K-LESS]

Car and Current Mods Are:

-: 1996 Nissan Skyline R33 Gts25t Series II

-: Front Mount InterCooler and Piping

-: Full 3 Inch Exhaust from Turbo

-: Apexi Power Intake

-: 38mm External Wastegate

-: Blitz BOV

-:Apexi Safc 2

-:Highflow Turbo of some sort

-:Apexi RSM

-:Front and Rear Nismo Strut Braces

-:KTS Adjustable Suspension

-:Adjustable Rear Camber Arms

-:Whiteline Pineapples

-:Custom 5 Puk Clutch and Uprated Pressure Plate

-:Hel Braided Brake Lines

-:Nismo Fuel Pump

Edited September 23, 2011 by K-LESS

[Don Dada]

This is good to know. So were you running a adjustable fuel pressure regulator as well, and adjusting base ignition timing using the cas? And you just used the safc 2 knock detection function to detect knock? What kinda numbers are indications of knock on the safc 2?

So it sounds like you saying that for full throttle tuning the safc 2 is ok but its tuning part throttle at high rpm's the engine was knocking a bit?

This is good, I am interested to hear more :-)

There is nothing good about that....Where the car will drive ok when you floor it from low rpm and let it run up, it will be totally different say if you are crusing at 4500rpm and then sink it....It might ping its ass off coming into boost, as the ecu now uses a totally different set of load points which timing will be to advanced because of the changes you made to the fueling around that rpm.

Thats why we say its a balancing act and can be very frustrating to get those holes tuned out....worse yet with a high flow turbo

For your set up you need some sort of ign control....without that youre wasting time

[KiwiRS4T]

. My cars not auto it is manual.

I have my doubts about link. I know the g4 is much better than their previous products but it still only has 3 ignition drivers which to me cant be good for car that runs six seperate coil packs.

Sorry was someone else in your thread with an auto. Your stock ecu only has 3 ignition drivers. Seems like an odd reason to knock an ecu that has performed well in plenty of race cars, drag cars and lots of members street and or track cars (including mine). Admittedly it is a significant investment and Nistune would be better value for you if you could get it up to Auckland or down to Christchurch for a tune (even with a wideband I fear you will destroy your own engine!).

[blk94r33]

Related:

http://www.maxxtunin...tr--benjamin-b/

Cars here with 30+rwkw gain and better economy:

http://www.300zx.com.au/dyno.htm

Edited September 23, 2011 by blk94r33

[hardsteppa]

But I picked up the Safc 2 for next to nothing. And if people have managed to run there cars with improved over all driveability on them and been happy with it then theres no reason to fork out hundreds or thousands of dollars for a full on aftermarket ecu

damn straight. My safc2 cost me $200. I get sick of reading "safc is crap, throw it away". Of course they will not work anywhere near as well as a full tuneable ecu but not everyone needs or wants that. They are a signal bender as ppl keep saying and if all you want to do is bend the signal a little to optimize bolt-ons or stock tune then that is what they are made for.

And as for the OP saying he wants to get a wideband and have a go at the tuning himself, I think that is a great idea - safc2 is a simple unit so would be a great base to try tuning, as long as keeping in mind the whole change of ign timing thing. I'd be very interested to hear how you go with it mate, keen to try it myself, just trying to justify wideband/datalogger cost.

[K-LESS]

damn straight. My safc2 cost me $200. I get sick of reading "safc is crap, throw it away". Of course they will not work anywhere near as well as a full tuneable ecu but not everyone needs or wants that. They are a signal bender as ppl keep saying and if all you want to do is bend the signal a little to optimize bolt-ons or stock tune then that is what they are made for.

And as for the OP saying he wants to get a wideband and have a go at the tuning himself, I think that is a great idea - safc2 is a simple unit so would be a great base to try tuning, as long as keeping in mind the whole change of ign timing thing. I'd be very interested to hear how you go with it mate, keen to try it myself, just trying to justify wideband/datalogger cost.

And Thank You! Will definatly let you know how I get on! Hope more people will reply and share their experiences as well. Its been shown that people have run safc2's with highflow turbos and other bolt ons so I am very interested to know what they thought of how their car drove.

Don Dada, since you have been down this track before, Did you use the knock funtion on the safc 2 to detect knock? And if so what kinda numbers are the ones to watch out for and what would be considered normal?

I still would like to know what people have set their 12 NE Correction points to. Not that actual corrections made on the safc 2. And also what they set their High Throttle and Low Throttle % to.

Still learning so still want to hear from everyone and their experiences if they have tuned a safc 2.

[K-LESS]

Sorry was someone else in your thread with an auto. Your stock ecu only has 3 ignition drivers. Seems like an odd reason to knock an ecu that has performed well in plenty of race cars, drag cars and lots of members street and or track cars (including mine). Admittedly it is a significant investment and Nistune would be better value for you if you could get it up to Auckland or down to Christchurch for a tune (even with a wideband I fear you will destroy your own engine!).

Thats intersting I always thought the stock ecu had 6 ignition drivers. Not knocking on Link at all sorry if I implied that in anyway. I would love to have a full aftermarket ecu any day as I know they are better, but I would like to start with safc 2 since its there. I picked a 300zx ecu for very cheap as well so eventually I will move to nistune if I am not happy with safc 2. I would like to try tune it myself as it is something I am very interested in. Who in Auckland tunes nistunes? I didnt realise there was someone in Aucks that did.

[KiwiRS4T]

Who in Auckland tunes nistunes? I didnt realise there was someone in Aucks that did.

Andy McKenzie (X-tune) I think Soichi (Hytech) and one or two others. Maybe you could get along to one of Andre Simon's seminars

http://www.speedtechnz.com/Training/EFI+Tuning+Stage+1.html

although they are a bit pricey.

[hardsteppa]

I still would like to know what people have set their 12 NE Correction points to. Not that actual corrections made on the safc 2. And also what they set their High Throttle and Low Throttle % to.

do you have the page from the safc2 manual showing the suggested settings? It has a suggested tune on it too but I wouldn't advise using it. I think there is still a copy or link to it that I posted in the "japan" section here while I was trying to get it translated ( i now have it translated lol, from a japanese girl at work)

[K-LESS]

Andy McKenzie (X-tune) I think Soichi (Hytech) and one or two others. Maybe you could get along to one of Andre Simon's seminars

http://www.speedtech...ng+Stage+1.html

although they are a bit pricey.

Awww wow I had no Idea Soichi tuned nistunes. MIght have to give him a bell and find out.

[K-LESS]

do you have the page from the safc2 manual showing the suggested settings? It has a suggested tune on it too but I wouldn't advise using it. I think there is still a copy or link to it that I posted in the "japan" section here while I was trying to get it translated ( i now have it translated lol, from a japanese girl at work)

Hey yeah ive got that page but its in japanese lol haha. Would be interested to know what it does say ay. That manual is based on the first safc I think as it only use 8 Correction Points compared to 12. Yeah I wouldnt think using the suggested tune is a good idea. Be interesting to know if any one has and as to weather it made a difference? I looks like its still running very rich afr's.

[Don Dada]

You have to set up the knk correction as shown in the manual....This set up is to basically calibrate the unit and it uses this data to give you a final knk level, so your set up will be different to mine or anybody else own.

Another funny thing with the safc2 is that the hotter the unit itself gets it will read higher knk but only on idle...when you start to drive it goes back down, so you can ignore this knk on idle.

My suggestion is do the correction as the manual states, but take a drive and make sure the engine is up to temp and place the safc where it would be permanently installed so it too will be at its "normal" operating temp, then do the set up....This way it shouldnt be too sensitive but still accurate enough.

I normally keep my levels under 20 but I have experimented heaps on mine along with the pfc and using my ear also....You'll have to fiddle with yours too, but you will definitely know when its knocking, it should give you some higher spikes above the normal level...the hard part it determining what is the normal level for you set up.....

Anyway knk detection definitely works, and I actually trust it more than my pfc to tell you the truth

As for the Ne pts...You'll only know where to set them properly when you start to tune and pick up the extra rich parts and flat spots in the rev range...leave it as default for now

[K-LESS]

You have to set up the knk correction as shown in the manual....This set up is to basically calibrate the unit and it uses this data to give you a final knk level, so your set up will be different to mine or anybody else own.

Another funny thing with the safc2 is that the hotter the unit itself gets it will read higher knk but only on idle...when you start to drive it goes back down, so you can ignore this knk on idle.

My suggestion is do the correction as the manual states, but take a drive and make sure the engine is up to temp and place the safc where it would be permanently installed so it too will be at its "normal" operating temp, then do the set up....This way it shouldnt be too sensitive but still accurate enough.

I normally keep my levels under 20 but I have experimented heaps on mine along with the pfc and using my ear also....You'll have to fiddle with yours too, but you will definitely know when its knocking, it should give you some higher spikes above the normal level...the hard part it determining what is the normal level for you set up.....

Anyway knk detection definitely works, and I actually trust it more than my pfc to tell you the truth

As for the Ne pts...You'll only know where to set them properly when you start to tune and pick up the extra rich parts and flat spots in the rev range...leave it as default for now

Thanks for that. I have already done the knock sensor calibration so will keep an eye on it. Also why did you use a adjustable fuel pressure regulator with your setup? Were you trying to use the adjustable fuel pressure refulator to get as close to the afr as possible and then decrease fuel only where needed to avoid knock because of the safc 2's behaviour? Thanks for yuour advice.

And Id still love to hear from others who have also tried to tune safc 2 themselves. Did you ever play around with the cas much to adjust your base ignition timing or did you just leave it at stock? As mine is currently stock as that what I read to put it at before I start playing with the safc 2.

[hardsteppa]

translation is (refer to my numbers on safc2 sheet)

1) It's something about additional rate to the normal air/fuel ratio upon use of Power intake.

2) The example of setting when in use of Normal air cleaner

3) The example of setting when in use Power intake

4) Additional rate to the normal air/fuel ratio upon use of Apex Power intake. When use "Apex Power intake," the shape of "air cleaner" changes, so there will be a gap of air/fuel ratio from the pure condition (?) This setting rate is for giving correction to pure air/fuel ratio in order to make best of the performance of the Apex Power intake.

5) The example of setting when in use of Normal cleaner. This is the example of the controlled rate, the case of being more powerful than when pure condition by using Normal air cleaner.

6) The example of setting when in use Apex Power intake. This is the example of the controlled rate, the case of being more powerful than when pure condition by using Apex Power intake.

7) Graphs of air/fuel ratio in each conditions of settings.

safc2 graph marked.pdf

[K-LESS]

translation is (refer to my numbers on safc2 sheet)

1) It's something about additional rate to the normal air/fuel ratio upon use of Power intake.

2) The example of setting when in use of Normal air cleaner

3) The example of setting when in use Power intake

4) Additional rate to the normal air/fuel ratio upon use of Apex Power intake. When use "Apex Power intake," the shape of "air cleaner" changes, so there will be a gap of air/fuel ratio from the pure condition (?) This setting rate is for giving correction to pure air/fuel ratio in order to make best of the performance of the Apex Power intake.

5) The example of setting when in use of Normal cleaner. This is the example of the controlled rate, the case of being more powerful than when pure condition by using Normal air cleaner.

6) The example of setting when in use Apex Power intake. This is the example of the controlled rate, the case of being more powerful than when pure condition by using Apex Power intake.

7) Graphs of air/fuel ratio in each conditions of settings.

Thats cool. I always wondered what that sheet of paper said lol. Might play around with them when I get my wide band and see if they are a good start for base settings or something like that.

[Don Dada]

Yea I dropped fuel pressure a bit so I wouldnt have to take out as much using the safc2, as ign was pretty high as is, and taking out more fuel would have sent it even higher...crude, but it worked for my stock turb on 11-12psi,....dont know how it would work with your high flow though.

Also start tuning with your cas in the stock position(15*) and then go from there.

[K-LESS]

Yea I dropped fuel pressure a bit so I wouldnt have to take out as much using the safc2, as ign was pretty high as is, and taking out more fuel would have sent it even higher...crude, but it worked for my stock turb on 11-12psi,....dont know how it would work with your high flow though.

Also start tuning with your cas in the stock position(15*) and then go from there.

Cool many thanks for that. Timing is definatly in stock position but will double check again before I begin.

[Rolls]

Email nistune themselves and find out who in your area can do a nistune for you.

A stock tune and the module etc wouldn't set you back much more than $600, a wideband alone is what $400?

I really wouldn't waste your time, if you continue to mod your car an SAFC won't be good enough, might as well do it once do it properly, will get a much better tune with a nistune or powerfc etc.