Safe Boost & Power Level

[zebra]

Problem being Ash is that like myself, People take their street cars to the track.

When I had my 33 tuned I asked for a very conservative tune because I wanted to track it.

a few laps at wakeie pinged its head off and blew up a week later....Even after asking for a track tune.

$7k Forged RB25 doen the drain

[GTScotT]

Its been said before.. Its all in the tune. The problem I have these days is finding the right tune.

I have to say it...... OEM is unbeatable in so many ways.

I miss the days of putting bigger OEM motors in smaller cars. Like an SR20DET from a big heavy AWD in a FWD N14 or a K swapped Civic, running on factory tunes. Even a very basically tuned S13 and stuff like that. The more power you chase the bigger your headache gets.

[R31Nismoid]

Problem being Ash is that like myself, People take their street cars to the track.

When I had my 33 tuned I asked for a very conservative tune because I wanted to track it.

a few laps at wakeie pinged its head off and blew up a week later....Even after asking for a track tune.

$7k Forged RB25 doen the drain

Indeed that is the issue at times. Street tunes are certainly much less forgiving, but then so are the conditions of use.

I know if I'm doing drag work then i can add a couple degrees for instance easily without any alter in knock given its only a quick pass. But i just leave well enough alone, i never get any noticeable amount of knock unless a limiter get tapped.

[Room42]

Think of it this way.

Race car gets tuned by you on a dyno...a few runs in 4th gear with the dyno fan on flat out.

Goes out on track and is following a car for 2-3-4 laps with bugger all airflow through the intercooler/radiator....IAT's go to over 100degs...and ping ping ping ping BANG

same can be applied to the road but not to the same extreme

To start of I'll say that I wouldn't let anyone tune my car, even for free. If I was going to tune my r33 for the track it wouldn't be on a dyno. And as it is now it wasn't tuned on a dyno. Sure I put it on a dyno after I did what I could with it, to check how much power it had and get the guy who tunes all day long to check my work and make changes that I specifically asked for. For what its worth he said it was the best tuned car they have ever had in there. If I had no choice but to use a dyno as is the case for many, I personally would make sure that it would last a flogging on a track. I sure as hell wouldn't just do a few runs in 4th gear with a dyno fan on flat out. Some would, I wouldn't. That is asking for trouble as you found out with your $7k engine zebra.

As far as a safe tune goes I think it would be more correct to say that a tune is safe for its application. I disagree about the point you made about a "safe tune" being one able to handle 50 degrees and minus 50 degrees at 8000 rpm at wot. To have a single tune that would be "safe" for this extreme would be shithouse. That's not a good tune at all and I would even go so far as to say that the car is not tuned. I acknowledge however that you were making a point with that statement. I also would add that most oem cars are designed to work at that extreme but they have more than one map in use and more corrections than a singular one map tune. So tuning is really subjective to an extent.

Guys I'm not having a go at yas but for me at least it is common sense to change my tune to suit my driving style. I don't tune every day but I do check constantly, due to fuel inconsistency. If you know that you are going to give it a hiding for a long time then soften your tune a bit.

I agree with street tunes being less forgiving. Mine is. If I was to loan my car (which I wouldn't) then I would pull 4 or 5 degrees off the top so it came back with the engine intact. Five or six degrees is enough timing pulled to run 91 octane.

Phew long ass post, first day back at work for about 6 weeks and just got home. Happy days.

[R31Nismoid]

To start of I'll say that I wouldn't let anyone tune my car, even for free. If I was going to tune my r33 for the track it wouldn't be on a dyno.

I sure as hell wouldn't just do a few runs in 4th gear with a dyno fan on flat out. Some would, I wouldn't. That is asking for trouble as you found out with your $7k engine zebra.[/img]

So where would you tune it then?

You going to run around at a track day, with a laptop sitting in the passenger seat whilst you make changes on the fly? Come on... you wouldn't be allowed out onto a circuit for a start.

Add to the fact you cannot test a full run in 4th (or 5th), max load, on the street repeatable/safe in manner anyway with the speeds you'd see (200+) on a circuit. Nor is this a 1M race outfit that can remotely adjust the tunes on the fly.

You need a dyno.

Side point, and not even sure why im asking... But what does a dyno fan have to do with a motor failing @ the track?

[R31Nismoid]

SAU takes a distinct and harsh stand towards outward stupidity.

Club member or not, talk about doing $2 on public roads again, you'll lose your account.

Thread cleaned.

[Room42]

Anyway back on topic. r32 stock rb25det engine. Outback Perth. Not my car. This gives us a good insight into how much power a stock rb25det can handle.

[R31Nismoid]

Depends on your definition of "handle" really. Most people would like more than a "if i can"

As this is what the very owner said about it:

Soft limiter is at 7800 and hard at 7900. Just moving both to 8000 and 8100 it's not really a huge change...

Plus it's not like the motor is falling over, it's still well in happy zone and continuing to make power :-)

if I can get a few years out of the motor i'll be happy

And it was then backed off a little bit power and RPM wise - so not running the same power day in/day out.

My T67-25g is still going strong after a night out at the track!

Was only running 7000rpm and 1.4bar of boost for longevity of the motor but it still makes about 355kw at the hubs or 330rwkw on a roller...

Not taking anything away from Simon's set-up etc, it's certainly surprised a good number of us what can be done on a limited budget and is impressive.

Just don't expect that to be the norm more than anything, it's all about being realistic.

[Room42]

Depends on your definition of "handle" really. Most people would like more than a "if i can"

Just don't expect that to be the norm more than anything, it's all about being realistic.

Lol at "if I can". If I can I'll turn up my car till the fuel pump or z32afm maxes out. Realistically it will greatly shorten its life if I give it a hard time. We'll see how it goes.

[itshimdazza]

20psi is fine as long as it's been safely tuned. I'm making 287rwkws at 19psi out of their .63 OP6 high flow for over a year. No issues of what so ever.

The ATR43SS1PU runs a big .84 rear housing with top notch response using what they call fnt turbine setup so judging by size its not getting hotter then any thing else in its HP range.

How ever they are very skeptical with free flow intake and exhaust, So make sure you have them before taking to the tuners.

I'm unsure what actuators Stao fitted onto your turbo, ask them to supply a stronger actautor only if boost drops below expectation with act of boost controller. how ever it could also be none actuator related.

Georgesr34,

I have a soilid intake & Stao originally gave me the 15psi actuator, When i started to get the tune the coils started (1 of) to breakdown so The tuner had to stop, Since then & with conversations with Stao I decided to chage over the 15psi actuator to the 20psi one as I was going to use my DSBC to have a low (15) & high (20) setting> But upon much searching I now just want a high setting and use my foot as the boost controller, hence this original thread asking if 20psi would be ok for the motor. Purley a street car (wont be driven on the track) and being a daily I cant afford to have it off the road so wont go crazy and may only accasionlly see full bosst anyway so I though it may be ok?

But as allways guys thanks heaps for all your input & feedback

Dazza

[gotRICE?]

I was under the impression that whatever rating your actuator is, is the lowest possible boost you can run. Apart from throttle variations that is.

[DVS JEZ]

Thats true most of the time. But Tao's actuators seem to run slightly lower than what they are rated.