Vic Wasteland Thread

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

To be honest, it's no worse an investment than all the ex PM's we pay for life... especially the 2 (and possibly 3) that got booted mid term

[alr33x]

Yeah granted but it's not a financial issue and Id not be suprised if Indonesia takes offense - not that I give two fks about Indonesia 3rd world cess pool that it is.

[Birds]

Why do western countries find it so hard to comprehend that not every country has the same set of morals/traditions/laws as us? We have to shove our way down there throats? Indonesia is guilty of doing that too in similar situations.

That model got slammed by people on her twitter account for essentially stating she didn't support the death penalty but that laws in other countries are laws and need to be accepted. If you don't like it don't go there fark...who forced you to get on a plane there with drugs? You took a risk that didn't pay off. Can the government give me my life savings back from gambling on roulette because I expected to profit from all the poor saps who regularly lose their money and now my life is fked because I lost the gamble?

[HEKT1K]

Wonder how many bleeding hearts would reach into their own pockets to fund that

[Birds]

Wonder how many bleeding hearts would reach into their own pockets to fund that

Proportionate to the number of people claiming that income tax is the f**kin government stealing their hard earned money and they get nothing for it

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Yeah granted but it's not a financial issue and Id not be suprised if Indonesia takes offense - not that I give two fks about Indonesia 3rd world cess pool that it is.

would you say it's a thoroughly bad idea?

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Why do western countries find it so hard to comprehend that not every country has the same set of morals/traditions/laws as us? We have to shove our way down there throats? Indonesia is guilty of doing that too in similar situations.

All countries do this.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with taking a stand against what we believe to be incorrect... to a point.

In this case the death penalty, particularly when it is being imposed in a manner that may or may not be in contradiction of the terms of the UDHR, depending on how you interpret it is something we should take a stand on when it involves Australian citizens.

If you need an example of where interfering in other countries shit is more pertinent than 2 flogs that tried to smuggle drugs, look at Peter Greste. He'd still be rotting in an Egyptian gaol if the international community hadn't become involved.

[Leroy Peterson]

they should give them a pension but make em do something else until retirement... get a job.

campaign manager? speech writer? there would be plenty they could do. rather than become a personality and bum.

[Birds]

Bit of a difference between helping journalists and helping drug dealers, don't you think?

Regardless, I stand by my statement - if you're concerned that your actions overseas might land you in the shit, don't go there. There's nothing wrong with staying in the safety of Australia where you're familiar with the laws and authorities aren't as corrupt. Otherwise, do your homework on the laws and take your gamble. 9/10 times these people who get caught up in situations weren't doing everyday things or tourism, they are dealing drugs or trying to fk with politics and wars in other countries. People go around the world thinking they can get away with murder because they are westerners and because our own laws are softer on issues that other countries aren't.

Also, why do foreigners in a country get special rights/treatment over and above the country's own citizens (how many appeals have we made historically for local Indonesians not to face the death penalty, if we really oppose it that much?)

If a Dutch person got done for weed here there's no way they'd get special treatment because it's legal back home. We expect foreigners here to abide by our laws or face our penalties.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Bit of a difference between helping journalists and helping drug dealers, don't you think?

Regardless, I stand by my statement - if you're concerned that your actions overseas might land you in the shit, don't go there. There's nothing wrong with staying in the safety of Australia where you're familiar with the laws and authorities aren't as corrupt. Otherwise, do your homework on the laws and take your gamble. People go around the world thinking they can get away with murder because they are westerners and because our own laws are softer on issues that other countries aren't.

Also, why do foreigners in a country get special rights/treatment over and above the country's own citizens (how many appeals have we made historically for local Indonesians not to face the death penalty, if we really oppose it that much?)

If a Dutch person got done for weed here there's no way they'd get special treatment because it's legal back home. We expect foreigners here to abide by our laws or face our penalties.

Of course, and I agree with you 99%

The issue IMHO is the implementation of the death penalty in a manner that is contradictory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in that it should be reserved solely for crime that results directly in death or the ambiguous "most serious offenses" clause, of which the trafficking of drugs is not generally considered to be.

If it was a discussion regarding life vs 20 years vs freedom or whatever, I back you 100% yo do the crime you do the time.

I have an issue with the death penalty in general in that it is fundamentally flawed by way of being irrevocable. By having the penalty you also must accept some collateral damage as the justice system is simply not perfect and innocent people can not be unkilled. IMHO that is not good enough, and makes capital punishment unacceptable.

I would also suggest that if LIFE in prison (possibly in solitary) isn't enough to deter someone, then I'm willing to wager death doesn't add much weight to the consideration

[dezz]

Cannot believe aus offering to pay for Bali 9 to stay in jail for life

I'll pay for the bullets

[Plattsy]

f**k ill pull the trigger. f**king drug smuggling scum.

[Birds]

Of course, and I agree with you 99%

The issue IMHO is the implementation of the death penalty in a manner that is contradictory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in that it should be reserved solely for crime that results directly in death or the ambiguous "most serious offenses" clause, of which the trafficking of drugs is not generally considered to be.

If it was a discussion regarding life vs 20 years vs freedom or whatever, I back you 100% yo do the crime you do the time.

I have an issue with the death penalty in general in that it is fundamentally flawed by way of being irrevocable. By having the penalty you also must accept some collateral damage as the justice system is simply not perfect and innocent people can not be unkilled. IMHO that is not good enough, and makes capital punishment unacceptable.

I would also suggest that if LIFE in prison (possibly in solitary) isn't enough to deter someone, then I'm willing to wager death doesn't add much weight to the consideration

The UDHR means very little these days considering what is going on around the world and countries having their own set of laws - China could give less of a shit about it. I think if it really mattered to us over and above us just looking out for our own citizens with special treatment, we should be pushing for Indonesia to change their laws not just to make exceptions. I agree with your sentiment about the death penalty and do not support it either, but I simply say that that's the risk of entering a country the laws of which you don't agree with. That's the collateral of traveling overseas unfortunately. I'm all for free market - if tourism drops off because nobody wants to go there, they might consider changing it.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

The UDHR means very little these days considering what is going on around the world and countries having their own set of laws - China could give less of a shit about it. I think if it really mattered to us over and above us just looking out for our own citizens with special treatment, we should be pushing for Indonesia to change their laws not just to make exceptions. I agree with your sentiment about the death penalty and do not support it either, but I simply say that that's the risk of entering a country the laws of which you don't agree with. That's the collateral of traveling overseas unfortunately. I'm all for free market - if tourism drops off because nobody wants to go there, they might consider changing it.

It gets ignored as people let it get ignored.

I think we should protect our citizens where we believe the UDHR may be being breached. (torture, illegal imprisonment, death for drug offenses etc) Everything else is fair game.

In regards to non Australian citizens that's what the UN is there for.. (well that and the obvious REAL agenda of trying to destabilise the Abbott government)

[alr33x]

I'm with birds they broke the law, ignorance is no excuse (doubt they were ignorant) so it's bad luck IF the only reason people are against it is as you state cos it contravenes world standard for death penalty that's very self indulgent because nobody gave a shit about the people executed before these two and won't care about the ones after so that's just a convenient excuse to support the argument if it's outrageous for Aussies to get executed it has to be outrageous for any person to be.

I for one support the death penalty perhaps not for drug smuggling but murder / rape etc why waste money on them sitting in jail?

[Mohsen]

cars are cool eh..

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

I'm with birds they broke the law, ignorance is no excuse (doubt they were ignorant) so it's bad luck IF the only reason people are against it is as you state cos it contravenes world standard for death penalty that's very self indulgent because nobody gave a shit about the people executed before these two and won't care about the ones after so that's just a convenient excuse to support the argument if it's outrageous for Aussies to get executed it has to be outrageous for any person to be.

I for one support the death penalty perhaps not for drug smuggling but murder / rape etc why waste money on them sitting in jail?

No one is stating they didn't know EXACTLY what they were doing and also what the risk was. Of course they did... You physically can't go to Indo without being notified multiple times. Bunch of young arrogant flogs in it for a quick buck with no regard for other people.

For some the issue is the death penalty in general, others it's to do with the UDHR "breach" and for a smaller 3rd lot it's to do with the obvious political grandstanding from Indo.

In any case Australia has an obligation to look after it's citizen's abroad and I think that is appropriate behavior from a 1st world country, not just in this case but in all cases. (especially ones where the person hasn't actually done anything wrong)

I am in no way ashamed to admit I care about this case more than others because they are Australian.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

cars are cool eh..

douchebag

[alr33x]

I am in no way ashamed to admit I care about this case more than others because they are Australian.

That's where the argument is flawed - if it's wrong it's wrong can't be wrong just cos they're aussie.

My honest opinion is I couldn't care less what happens but I do feel for the family & friends beyond that it's not a political issue they broke the law.

How would aus like it if an Indonesian broke our law and their president bang bang or whatever his name is starts telling our gov to pull its head in? No doubt we would take a similar stance perhaps minus the jets and warships like seriously guys they smuggled drugs they ain't Osama bin dr. Evil.

[Leroy Peterson]

Guy I know travels from syd to Melbourne for F1.

Making sandwiches and packing Just juices for the whole weekend so he can afford to buy a red bull hoodie for $180.

Sums up the whole grand prix really.

Phillip island classic was on last weekend and I know which one I would have rather gone to.