Vic Wasteland Thread

[alr33x]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/mother-of-two-calls-out-treasurer-joe-hockey-with-an-open-letter-doing-the-maths-on-sydney-housing-affordability-2015-6

Poor woman had to borrow money from her family to buy her first house...shock horror

Uses as an example the most expensive housing market in the country weighed against the average nationwide wage for a single university graduate

#leftylogic

Why do people think being able to easily buy an inner city property as a single person with any old job is a god given right? And when did this mentality begin? I can't remember my parents wanting to live in Toorak on average wage - they bought on the fringe with decent jobs, which 35 years later happens to be a very good area...now!

Saw a few people share that on fb.. Unfriended them ain't got time for flogs like that waving a victim card.

Your spot on birds my parents did it tough in a not glamorous suburb no flash car no dinners out heck my dad was the plumber, painter, mechanic, Gardner you name it cos wasn't money left over after takin care of the family.

I still find the whole affordability thing a joke since so many people are buying while the others sit around at a likely expensive hipster dinner sipping wine and fine beers bemoaning how unfair it all is

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/mother-of-two-calls-out-treasurer-joe-hockey-with-an-open-letter-doing-the-maths-on-sydney-housing-affordability-2015-6

Poor woman had to borrow money from her family to buy her first house...shock horror

Uses as an example the most expensive housing market in the country weighed against the average nationwide wage for a single university graduate

#leftylogic

Why do people think being able to easily buy an inner city property as a single person with any old job is a god given right? And when did this mentality begin? I can't remember my parents wanting to live in Toorak on average wage - they bought on the fringe with decent jobs, which 35 years later happens to be a very good area...now!

I'm not sure I follow the conservative logic here.

It is undeniable that housing is becoming a serious issue.

The 30% of income dedicated to living expenditure has been breached for some time now and cost of living is also increasing. Housing prices continue to rise exponentially and interest rates are set to rise again at some point. It's going to be a clusterf**k when it happens.

Y'all conservatives just need to stop getting all butthurt and crying because the libs are being attacked and take a step back. It's not the LNP's fault there is an issue, and no one is actually saying that. There has been an issue for a long time and it's a bipartisan problem.

The only reason the LNP are being attacked is (again) the treasurer said something stupid that alienated a huge portion of the population that are affected by this issue.

This an attack not on a party but a well deserving individual with a history of similar comments.

If Labor were in power the libs would be attacking them on the exact same issues (as they did just a couple of years ago) because they know it's a real issue and makes the incumbent government an easy target.

Labor did nothing much last time and if elected again will probably do nothing as abolishing negative gearing is akin to political suicide.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Saw a few people share that on fb.. Unfriended them ain't got time for flogs like that waving a victim card.

Your spot on birds my parents did it tough in a not glamorous suburb no flash car no dinners out heck my dad was the plumber, painter, mechanic, Gardner you name it cos wasn't money left over after takin care of the family.

I still find the whole affordability thing a joke since so many people are buying while the others sit around at a likely expensive hipster dinner sipping wine and fine beers bemoaning how unfair it all is

Also I don't think she was suggesting that someone on average wage should be buying a $900k house, merely using an example to highlight her point.

This is just a measure to show the state of the market.

[alr33x]

To be fair though the numbers don't support as wide spread an issue I think the whingers make more noise.

ie 25% of home owners are mortgage free.. If the 'average' loan is $440k on a median of 660k they're +200k equity so a cluster fk would seem unlikely perhaps extended stagnation sure & probably a good thing, but hard to foresee much more

Let's not forget the market did change quickly in gfc period but it's only a loss if you have to sell. Employment is a bigger issue than houses prices IMO.

http://mobile.news.com.au/finance/money/home-loan-customers-are-optimising-low-interest-rates-to-cut-their-mortgage-debts-faster/story-e6frfmdr-1227186099314

Edited June 13, 2015 by alr33x

[HEKT1K]

So it's a bipartisan problem, and the best thing any of the numbskulls can think of is punitive tax reform which won't get up. Ergo we're all stuffed, and just need to hold out until the boomers drop off. Problem solved.

I also don't get the obsession with ownership. Flogs will cry about renting and "paying some investor's mortgage" but apparently cannot join the dots and see that mortgage interest payments will flow to the bank's shareholders. With prices as they are in a lot of areas, it doesn't make sense to buy

[alr33x]

Yeah don't get me started on sooky tenants when an owner decides to sell expectin compensation and can't do this can't do that.. No actually I can and I will go fk yourself don't like it don't rent

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

To be fair though the numbers don't support as wide spread an issue I think the whingers make more noise.

ie 25% of home owners are mortgage free.. If the 'average' loan is $440k on a median of 660k they're +200k equity so a cluster fk would seem unlikely perhaps extended stagnation sure & probably a good thing, but hard to foresee much more

Let's not forget the market did change quickly in gfc period but it's only a loss if you have to sell. Employment is a bigger issue than houses prices IMO.

Yeah, but who make up that 25%?

Mostly people that bought a long time ago lol.

I also massively agree with equity only being an issue if you have to sell, hence that 25% being mostly o/o are safe as houses (pun intended)

The clusterf**k i was referring to was not regarding existing mortgage free o/o but people trying to get into the market and people who are borrowed to the max due to current prices on 4.5%

Shit is going to go downhill real fast there lol

[alr33x]

Yeah no doubt people who have gone to the hill cos rates are low are precariously placed but those type of people would do the same thing even if houses were 300k and 7% it's either the only way they can get in or they just don't care.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Yeah no doubt people who have gone to the hill cos rates are low are precariously placed but those type of people would do the same thing even if houses were 300k and 7% it's either the only way they can get in or they just don't care.

To a point... higher prices precipitate lending beyond means. When it is 7% again thise people are gonna be left behind

[alr33x]

Yes and no there's always those aspirational folks who'll reach beyond safe means. The banking system is to easy to manipulate for loans too, again separate issue of course

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Yeah don't get me started on sooky tenants when an owner decides to sell expectin compensation and can't do this can't do that.. No actually I can and I will go fk yourself don't like it don't rent

That sucks but it's part of #rentallyf

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Yes and no there's always those aspirational folks who'll reach beyond safe means. The banking system is to easy to manipulate for loans too, again separate issue of course

Yes and no... we lend on economist predicted affordability rates only.

Not the ability to pay actual rates.

Asset lenders are another kettle of fish though

[alr33x]

Yeah I mean brokers more specifically the dodgy shite they pull is like

Least we know to keep an eye on re listing it for sale within a couple years lol

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

So it's a bipartisan problem, and the best thing any of the numbskulls can think of is punitive tax reform which won't get up. Ergo we're all stuffed, and just need to hold out until the boomers drop off. Problem solved.

I also don't get the obsession with ownership. Flogs will cry about renting and "paying some investor's mortgage" but apparently cannot join the dots and see that mortgage interest payments will flow to the bank's shareholders. With prices as they are in a lot of areas, it doesn't make sense to buy

First point is spot on...

Second point fails a bit regarding those that can't afford to buy due to the market but also can not save enough to avoid the pension.

You can't rent on the pension so the only solution there is going to be a massive drain on the economy

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Yeah I mean brokers more specifically the dodgy shite they pull is like

Least we know to keep an eye on re listing it for sale within a couple years lol

Amen

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

We may see capital gain/neg gearing reform... but it wont be "removed"

[Birds]

I'm not sure I follow the conservative logic here.

It is undeniable that housing is becoming a serious issue.

The 30% of income dedicated to living expenditure has been breached for some time now and cost of living is also increasing. Housing prices continue to rise exponentially and interest rates are set to rise again at some point. It's going to be a clusterf**k when it happens.

Y'all conservatives just need to stop getting all butthurt and crying because the libs are being attacked and take a step back. It's not the LNP's fault there is an issue, and no one is actually saying that. There has been an issue for a long time and it's a bipartisan problem.

The only reason the LNP are being attacked is (again) the treasurer said something stupid that alienated a huge portion of the population that are affected by this issue.

This an attack not on a party but a well deserving individual with a history of similar comments.

If Labor were in power the libs would be attacking them on the exact same issues (as they did just a couple of years ago) because they know it's a real issue and makes the incumbent government an easy target.

Labor did nothing much last time and if elected again will probably do nothing as abolishing negative gearing is akin to political suicide.

I'm not really upset about Hockey getting attacked even though I think that was blown out of proportion and taken way out of context. I do believe housing affordability is an issue that should be addressed and yes worse than it was years ago, BUT not as bad as people are making it out to be when so many with average jobs are capable of doing it - Alex would see a lot of this and living in a fringe suburb myself I see a lot of it too in my neighbours.

What really rustles my jimmies here is the entitlement Marxist crowd who want to work a graduate job in the city and don't want to travel more than 15 minutes to get to it or want stone throw access to swanky bars in the inner suburbs. I think it's all a part of that internet generation who want the best of everything now and don't want to wait or better themselves to achieve it.

Labor are probably the only ones who can get away with pulling back negative gearing...LNP would lose the most votes doing that...but then again it seems to be the union backed tradies with investment properties these days; my landlord included.

[Birds]

Also I don't think she was suggesting that someone on average wage should be buying a $900k house, merely using an example to highlight her point.

This is just a measure to show the state of the market.

Shitty example then. I have a feeling she used that because a reasonable house in a reasonable area with a reasonable wage comparison wouldn't have given her argument much spine at all.

My 2 bedroom apartment in Boronia changed hands for $375k less than 2 years ago. It's a fantastic apartment with 3 bathrooms and 2 underground car spaces and plenty of space as a couple, let alone a single person.

Now not everyone wants to live in Boronia, but welcome to capitalism. It's not so bad - logistically it's 35 minutes from the city, 40 minutes from the beach, 5 minutes from the swanky hipster-ridden mountain cafés, 20 minutes from melbourne's most expensive suburbs and 15 minutes from a plethora of corporate jobs in suburbia. That's called living within your means and still enjoying life.

At 375k - let's call it 420k now (blaze it fgt) - even a conservative 50k wage working as a receptionist with 30% living expenses; a well budgeted individual would have it paid off in 15 years or less...this is assuming you don't earn a promotion or get a better paying job, and that you don't board out the second room or end up with a partner who can co-contribute for a massive dent on the principal and loan term. That is a real world example and something the dumb bitch who wrote that letter wouldn't understand - no wonder she's working in HR, HR managers are f**king useless cunts and in the words of Joe Hockey she needs to get a better job.

[HEKT1K]

First point is spot on...

Second point fails a bit regarding those that can't afford to buy due to the market but also can not save enough to avoid the pension.

You can't rent on the pension so the only solution there is going to be a massive drain on the economy

Lol, so lifelong renters can't save / invest enough to support themselves in retirement, therefore it's MY analysis that fails? Pls

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Lol, so lifelong renters can't save / invest enough to support themselves in retirement, therefore it's MY analysis that fails? Pls

Not on minimum wage... and some people just aren't ever going to earn more than that. A mil is the current aim for retirement super to be comfortable without rent... on minimum wage that is not going to happen and THEN there is rent.

Get on your financial soap box all you want but the fact remains that these people do exist and will be a drain on our economy.

Try working for minimum wage / pay rent / live... it's doable... trust me, I've done it, but there is nothing left to save.