Roil Results

[Busky2k]

I personally dont believe in hardly any of the additives on the market either, and I do understand raist60's points clearly. There is lots of snake oil out there, and its hard to wade through alot of bullshit claims and what not. Altho there is a diamond in the rough somewhere, but you have to look for it. I could sit here and garbage additives all night, but its not in my best interest (or anyone elses for that matter). If you think its worked for you, then you got what you paid for. Easy!

The best way to test Roil IMO is to do double blind tests. One person gets a placebo additive and one gets the real treatment, and compare the percieved differences for both people then. Dynos would be helpful too, but expensive cos its gotta be done before and after, and hopefully the parameters are similiar for both runs. Remember "the butt dyno" recalibrates almost every week... ie feels slow 2 weeks after the zorst went on etc...

Also everyone has good claims from users for every product, even the dodgy ones like Slick 50 and Motorup. Hell even those shitty Abswing ads etc do.

Ok said enough, just remember, you never know until u try it I guess!

[gslrallysport]

Well said buddy......

Actually It'll be good for all of us if Enrico gets dynoed, cause I've just realised that I've never actually seen a graph for a turbo car, plenty of NA, and heaps of by the pants stories and reliabilty benifits, but never actually a dyno grpah... and as turbo cars seem to benifit more (the whole better responce and lag thing) it should be interesting to see..

[EnricoPalazzo]

i had a dyno run done a week before i added roil. I am gettin a re dyno next week, Well see what happens.

[riggaP]

Much of this has already been covered but...

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/09/pslcmp.htm <--- Looks awfully familiar in testing

Also that article states that the second roil was applied to the bearing being tested it was quiet immediately. What happend to the run in?

The words "Roil", "gold", "Neways" do not appear anywhere in this document. So why is it relevant?

RiggaP

http://www.ftc.gov

Do a search for Motorup, Prolong, Duralube whatever they are.

I'm begining to wonder if we are even speaking the same language. Why the fu(k would you have me search for "Motorup, Prolong, Duralube whatever they are" when we are talking about Roil Gold? The search term "Roil" returned 3 results that did not relate to this product. The search term "Roil Gold" returned 568 results (gold is evidently a popular topic), and the term "Neways" returned zip, zero, zilch, nothing! I'm still not seeing any proof.

What is wrong with letting these people give it a go? What do you have to lose by having a stranger's engine component fail?

[Gizmo73]

exactly.

i happy to wait for the dyno results...

Innocent until proven guilty...give the guy a break !!

[Sydneykid]

Hi guys, up to now I have I stayed out of this because I am totally sceptical of all oil additives. I have seen far too many come and go to be otherwise. Maybe this one is different, I honestly don't know whether it is or isn't. So I just ask myself the usual questions;

1. How does something that (supposedly) attaches itself to bearing surfaces affect oil change intervals? There are plenty of other reasons for changing oil, this sort of additive only affects one of them, and a minor one at that.

2. Keeping the above in mind, why wouldn't the oil companies add this type of additive to their oil? It is not going to affect the number of oil changes, so they would sell the same amount of oil. Keep in mind that the car manufacturers set the oil change intervals, via the warranty requirements.

3. Selling oil is a very competitive business, if just one oil company could see an advantage over their competitors in adding this additive then they would. They could charge more as well.

4. So to say that oil companies don't do it because they would sell less oil is simply ridiculous. If it was truly a competitive advantage that they could charge more for, they would do it tomorrow.

5. All the "amateur" testing is done by draining the old oil and replacing it with treated oil. What if just changing the oil (no additive) would have achieved the same result?

6. How does the treatment know the difference between a bearing surface and any other in the engine? So if the claims of attachment are actually factual, then it attaches to all surfaces. This is not always a good thing, piston rings being a prime example. With synchro rings being another, LSD clutch packs a further example and seals would be another. I have had previous experience using oil additive problems with all of these, never on my own personal car though.

7. The amount of difference seen on dyno graphs is always too small to be meaningful. For example I can get that sort of difference by aligning the wheels on the rollers.

8. The issue of build up has always been a problem with additives. The oil companies spend a lot of time on the detergent properties of their oil. In order to be effective, additives have to resist this detergent action to some extent (not necessarily totally). This means they must build up over time, and that is not a good thing.

9. The killer for me is risk. In the past I have not been confident enough in the longevity of the companies selling the product to use them. If I have a problem next year (or the year after) with an oil company I know, with relative certainty, that they will be around to support their product. Then I weigh this risk off against the small (potential) benefits and it doesn't come out too well on my scales.

Bottom line, I am not picking on this particular product or supporting any particular oil companies, I have deliberately not mentioned any brand names. Maybe this one is different, I really don't know, but point #9 will always make me very wary.

[gslrallysport]

Yep, in all honestly i couldn't agree more. In my experience its only through the results and those already using it that convinced me of its benfits. I'm definately no salesman and as such without a product this effective and unique then I definately wouldn't be doing it. I'm no chemist but basically many fleet companies that are using Roil have tripled their change periods, I'm not 100% sure of the reasons why except that thorugh testing the oil coming out after 3 times was still cleaner than it used to come out at normal interval.

All those that tried Roil on this forum (to my knowledge) didn't drain oil first, instead left the oil that was already in there. Roil requries movement to bond, and as such won't ussually attack things its not ment to. Remember that Roil doesn't contain suspended solids like most other friction fighting additives, instead it treats the metal directly to lower its co-effecient of friction, and won't effect the opperation of piston rings etc. This is mainly because roil bonds to metal, it doesn't coat it. I will admit though that roil isn't recommended for LSDs, or wet clutches in motorcylces, though i have seen both done with no evident loss.

Build up is a big one. Roil actually cleans the varnish and residue that high temperatures form in an engine. I put roil into a mate's 1980 KE55 Corolla only to have the block leak at the bottom where some rubbish had previously been holding it together (similar to when you add coolant to a car that hasn't had it for a while and it starts leaking).

As for point 9 i can say this: Neways has been around since 1987, is totally debt free, doesn't have to answer to sharedholders, and is the fastest growing MML company in the world... I know you guys won't have that same beleive as me, but i don't wanna be out a great job come next year (or the year after) either... Cheers budy... thanks for you input.

[Steve]

SK, I think you are the ultimate sceptic. I didnt put new oil in my car, I added it approx 1000kms before the change is due (now overdue by 250kms my bad).

Ask yourself also, what makes mobil 1 different to castrol magnatec? its the additives. My brother used to refine oil for a living and explained to me that all oil companies put additives in their oils, just as they do their petrol, bet there were a few people out there that didnt know that! Yep, for example in WA if you buy Mobil, or shell, its actually BP. When they take delivery of it, they just dose it with their own secret additives, and they also dont release their oil blends, just vague speils about its fantastic results and how its the best on the market.

Why is it that Nismo only use Motul 300V 15W50? it costs alot more than castrol gtx? or mobil 1. Perhaps its different? Well it is, because it has different additives as well as probably being manufactured slightly differently.

Different friction modifiers, polymers (plastics). The same things that have raised concern here, long chain polymers (if my memory serves). Hmm, the stuff off the shelf now doesnt sound so good - but if the oil companies put it in there it must be good? What additives do Motul use in their 300V 15W50 to justify charging $75 odd for 4 litres?

Oil companies sell billions of dollars in oil (the oil rig where my brother is currently, it nets somewhere close to 20million dollars a day) - why would they care about Roil? Mobil doesnt go head to head with Motul, or Omega (not even available in Aust, probably because its so damn expensive) - using your logic, they would if there was a dollar to be made.

Its in a niche market, and hey, you have to add it to oil, so why would they even be concerned, after all you still buy their wonderful oil that is better than any other (if you believe their advertising) Would it have the market to be economically viable and return a positive bottom line (public company)? It would take a pretty big investment, and can they guarantee it will keep the investers happy?

Ask yourself also would you ever put redline shockproof in a gearbox? Its very expensive, its even a funny colour, blue milky looking oil. If you have, did you satify all the above criteria before doing so, or did you just work on word of mouth recommendations?

Has anyone done any analysis to make sure its ok before they put it in? doubt it. What makes it different? well for one thing, it has additives in it. Do redline tell anyone what is in there? no way.

I agree with the dyno thing, realistically it wouldnt prove much. When I put my adj exhaust cam gear on it made 15rwkw difference (back to back) - this was hardly noticeable on the dyno, but made a difference on the road. such small figures would need an extremely exacting environment to be worth while. I could post up a dyno sheet with an extra 50rwkw, as you well know.

Some people are very sceptical, I am. But I truely do believe if you are too much of a sceptic, good things can pass you by because you wont move past what you know and accept something that you are not familiar with - bit like people who only drive V8 commodores.

Why not take a leap of faith, its not that expenisve that it would brake the bank. Even better still, sneak some into your son's car, dont tell him. Then go back and take it for a test drive after 750 odd kays:) Hey, if it does do nothing, I will buy you a beer the next time your in adelaide, or even a couple of bourbans;)

[Bass Junky]

Steve.

What a well written post. Just thought I'd say that.

BASS

[gslrallysport]

Just an update on who has Roil now and how the donations are going...

Ska, Steve, mx83toy, EnricoPalazzo, Bass Junky, RHiSC, MM2Death x3, Dreg01 and Zahos all have Roil...

In total 6 bottles (Dreg01, Zahos, BassJunky, MM2Death x3) have been bought at retail and so $30 will be donated to the forum, the rest were free trials... I'll wait until i get lots of 10, then I'll donate $50, rather than doing $5 bucks here and there...

Cheers guys.......

[Sydneykid]

Hi Steve, I said my bit on additives and I really wasn't going to post any more on this thread. But your well written post prompted me to, so it's your fault, OK?

In a true synthetic oil there is no refining involved. As an example, to make Formula R Synthetic, Castrol doesn't buy say BP crude oil and mix some secret herbs and spices into it. It is 100% synthetic, so it is totally blended by Castrol from their ingredients. Mobil 1 is the same, along with many others.

As it happens I don't use Redline, but if I did I would feel some confidence because all of what I put in the gearbox is made by Redline. They designed the total formula, so they know what's in it, they know what works with what. For example they made sure that the surfactants work with the polymers, not against them.

When oil is blended, the designer allows for the fact that some of the ingredients work better when used with other ingredients than they do stand alone (ie; 1 + 1 = 3). When YOU add an additive to someone else’s oil formula, have YOU made sure that ALL the ingredients are compatible? (ie; you don’t end up with 1 + 1 + 1 = 2)

The following are questions, not criticisms. JP1986 posted the results of Falex tests with different oils, it shows different levels of improvement (eg; Mobil 1 and Cat Diesel). This test only looks at one of the properties of a lubricant, what about all of the others? What effect does it have on the oils it is added to in the areas of viscosity, flash point, % sulfated ash, % zinc, temperature oxidation resistance, tendency to form other deposits, low temperature flow characteristics etc etc?

As I said in the previous post, I am not picking on this particular product or supporting any particular oil companies here. I have only used brand names to make the examples "real world" for the readers.

PS; Looks like we will be racing at Mallala later in the year Steve and the JD's are

on you.

[JimX]

How does Roil compare to Oil Extreme? They both seem to be very similar products.

[Steve]

No probs SK, will make sure I bring a 6 pack down:)

[gslrallysport]

Oil Extreme the world's best oil??? Even I aint that game...

From the looks of their site they seem hell bent on promoting it more as a business oppourtunity rather than any outright benifits that the acutal product may have... Its a pitty because it seems like a pretty good product otherwise. A product should be able to speak on its own, rather than getting people involved purely from a business perspective. I developed my passion for Roil through the benifits I'd seen personally and through those using it, since then I'd told a coupla ppl about it and had fantastic results... so the business oppourtunity was born out of that... Not sucked in by a business oppourtunity then wait and see if the results come... that's where business' fail.

If anyone's tried it I'm always open to new things, and if there's something better than Roil (not likely! lol), at least i know I'll have the balls to admit it...

Cheers...

[Bass Junky]

Hi ppls.

I have purchased some Roil and put it in my engine only so far.

I almost immediatly (50-70klms) noticed the car was different.

These are the things I began to notice.

The car runs at a slightly lower temperature than before. Insted of sitting just above a line on the temp gauge, it sits just below.

The oil also takes a little bit longer to heat up from cold.

The car now feels like it has a heavier flywheel on decelleration. IE. Not when accelerating, but between gears and on the decell.

The revs tend to stay up for longer (like a low powered 4 cylinder with a heavy flywheel).

Boost response is DEFINENTLY up. I am able to make good pressure even in 5th gear at 1800 rpm.

During normal driving, the response is improved (not that I ever had lag problems) but I can now make full boost about 200-300 rpm earlier.

Also, I can sit at low speeds in 5th gear, floor the throttle and insted of having to raise a few hundred rpm before making pressure, the thing now begins making boost almost immediately.

I can't yet say whether it uses less fuel, as I was half way through a tank when I put the Roil in.

I will keep people informed, and I am also about to put it in the Transmission (if I can ever find the damn hole to put it in!!) and test that out.

I'll keep everyone informed.

BASS OUT

PS. Does anybody know how much oil is in the transmission and where to put the stuff??

Excuse my ignorance.

[JimX]

Oil Extreme the world's best oil??? Even I aint that game...  

From the looks of their site they seem hell bent on promoting it more as a business oppourtunity rather than any outright benifits that the acutal product may have... Its a pitty because it seems like a pretty good product otherwise. A product should be able to speak on its own, rather than getting people involved purely from a business perspective.

Me too. I didn't find out about Oil Extreme via the official site though, it was from my mechanic at the time. My main reason for trying it was for reduced emissions, because due to the mods on my Commodore (my car at the time) it was over the legal limit. After running Oil Extreme for awhile, it became legal again.

The reason I ask is I'm wondering whether I should contemplate putting the leftover bottles I've got of Oil Extreme into my Skyline Sydneykid has done a good job thus far of convincing me not to. I'm still not sure what to do.

[riggaP]

I also put Roil in my car on the weekend with the full service. No noticeable differences yet but I'll let you know how it goes.

[gslrallysport]

From what i can gather Oil Extreme make their own oil or buy some one else's cheap, then add their special additive, which they also sell seperately, similar to Roil...

So forgetting any association I have with Roil, I rather choose the oil I'm putting in my car, which determines the base qualities, like viscosity, flash point etc. because i know that Roil doesn't affect any of this... Although it mixes with both synthetic and mineral lubricants, it in no way affects the base lubricant's properites, Roil isn't an oil additive, it only uses it as a carrier.

JimX, did you notice any other changes other than reduced emmisions, although Roil does the same i haven't pushed that side of it too much, because i guess things like increased boost are more exciting! ... anyways thanks for the heads up...

Cheers

[JimX]

Oil Extreme comes in 2 formulas, one is the blended stuff (which is apparently hydro-cracked oil and very good quality), and the other is the concentrate which you add to your own oil, and functions in the exact same way as you described the Roil.

I didn't take note of the economy or anything, so I can't comment on the other properties.

[Ska]

Well gentlemen I am just about to do an oil change so will keep you posted if the "changes" I saw with the roil in the oil stay after putting in fresh oil with no roil.

Thank you SK for your post, also Steve they were both very informative to me, but in the end, so far the product has worked for me with no side effects, YET! But also I am running totally stock, only part non-stock is a K&N highflow panel so I would not think I place a very high load on my internal parts, (engine, gearbox, etc) so really cant vouch for the products performance under heavy load.

In the end it works for me, so I'll be continuing to use it now, as I have seen a rise in fuel economy, very slight though it may be, I hope it gets better. And if it kills my motor/gearbox well I dont have much to replace and gives me a chance to put in something with a bit more grunt, but just like in the scientific community, a fact is a fact, until to disproven.

Unfortunatly I dont think we'll ever have facts coming from a reliable source OR a wide range of facts that will satisfy everyone, there wil always be someone out there calling this product and others like it snake oil and raving on how it does not work, (I am NOT implying SK was just stating a fact), and there will always be opposing people.

Worked for me so I'll use it, until proven that it will lead to long term damage to my vehicle. Which I'll keep you all posted if it does happen