R32 Power Steering Belt Dramas

[09ONE_32]

Hey hey,

I have an issue with my R32 power steering which I can't seem to work out. Engine setup is RB25/30 in a 32 using a RB25 power steering pump and an Atomic harmonic balancer. The balancer has 3 ribs for the p/s belt while the actual p/s pulley on the pump is a 4 rib. The problem I am having is the car always seems to kick the belt as soon as it comes onto boost and hits rev-limiter, wheather im applying lock or not the belt comes off and I can never find them again. I'm up to ~$130 in belts so far and none have stayed on for more than about 4 full boost stabs.

The harmonic balancer and power steering pulley all seem to be lined up correctly and the belt runs "true" and I have only had this problem since changing my turbo setup (bigger, more power)and am at a loss as to why it continues to happen. I have played around with tension and it seems as though the tighter I tension the belt the longer it will stay on however it's not even a full lap at QR (drifting). I cant seem to make it come off by free revving and I have run a sraight edge along the pulley and harmonic balancer and they line up perfectly.

The only thing I am thinking is that maybe a 3 rib power steering pulley may help me out as the belt won't have the extra room to move in a 3 rib pulley like it does with the standard 4 rib pulley. Although I am still at a loss to explain why this is happening now when it was perfectly fine before I changed my turbo setup and started making and additional ~140rwhp.

Anyone else have this problem? Any bright ideas cause I'm stumped!

[The Mafia]

The problem is pretty straight forward - if it's got room to jump a rib, then it starts running at a very slight angle giving it a chance to climb up the edge of the pulley.

Once it's at an angle, it's going to wander, so you need a pulley that is the same width of the belt.

I thought that may seem obvious?

[09ONE_32]

The problem is pretty straight forward - if it's got room to jump a rib, then it starts running at a very slight angle giving it a chance to climb up the edge of the pulley.

Once it's at an angle, it's going to wander, so you need a pulley that is the same width of the belt.

I thought that may seem obvious?

Not obvious really as it was fine running in that configuration for over 1.5 years, everything stayed the same except I increased power. I wouldnt have thought additional power / torque would cause the belt to kick off as I have never had an issue previous. Also doesn't do it on the dyno while under load only when being driven hard.

Either way, anyone know where I can aquire a 3 rib p/s pulley? I have had a fair bit of a search and can't seem to find anything and was thinking I may need to get one made.

[DVS JEZ]

Check the alignmet of the pulleys. May need to be spaced out/in slightly so 3 of the ribs line up with the 3 on the atomic.

Does the belt look straight when fitted?

[Run-It-Hard]

It's probably jumping off the PS pulley.

I'd be getting a 3 rib PS pulley if I were you.

CBC bearings sell Gates products, so give them the size your after (IE 3PK870) 3 = grooves "ribs" on belt, and 870 = outside length of belt.

Can also try Bursons, repco etc.

[The Mafia]

The extra torque and pull from lower speeds to higher speeds is moving \ pulling the belt more, creating more friction...

Hence why I think its a little obvious

[nisskid]

install a R33 power steering pump, eliminate your HICAS lines + you get a 3 rib pulley. you will need to switch over the feed elbow if you intend on keeping the R32 reservoir.

[09ONE_32]

Check the alignmet of the pulleys. May need to be spaced out/in slightly so 3 of the ribs line up with the 3 on the atomic.

Does the belt look straight when fitted?

Straight edge confirms pulleys are perfectly aligned, just as they always were. Belt definately looks fine when mounted and running. Can do 8K free rev and still runs perfectly. I'm sure it's not an alignment issue otherwise it would come off with the above test.

[09ONE_32]

install a R33 power steering pump, eliminate your HICAS lines + you get a 3 rib pulley. you will need to switch over the feed elbow if you intend on keeping the R32 reservoir.

I'm already running a RB25 P/S pump and have already eliminated HICAS and have a custom P/S reservoir.

Run-It-Hard

Thanks, will try CBC and bursons today. I would have thought I could have found one on the net through Ross or ATI but they have nothing!

The Mafia

If anything I would expect the additional power / torque to make the belt "slip" and have the harmonic balancer spin inside the belt not "grip" and throw it. Also the load of the P/S pump is a constant force so the belt isn't under any additional force from the extra power. I'm kinda thinking now that my engine is flexing a fair bit more with the additional torque and may be throwing out the alignment of the belt. This would cause the belt to run straight when free revving but not when under load. My plenum is making contact with my clutch slave (can see the marks) with the additional power so engine is definately flexing more than before.

But today I'm off to source a 3 rib pulley and see if that solves the dramas, as long as it's fixed the technicalaties of why it's happening can stay unknown!

[09ONE_32]

Can't seem to find anywhere that has a 3 rib pulley!

Anyone have any more ideas where to find a 3 rib pulley. I have been looking for ~ 3months online but haven't come up with anything. Surely a company will do aftermarket pulleys underdriven or whatever???

[scotty nm35]

There is a set on ebay...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-RB20-RB25-Underdrive-Lightweight-Pulley-/150653512508?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2313a62b3c#ht_1504wt_1135

Oh, are those for the other belt?

I work with belts constantly, they usually only pop off when out of alignment. Is one of the brackets snapped allowing movement at high revs?

[bubba]

Doubt the p/s pump bracket is snapped as it's quite a hefty chunk of cast something but it would have had to have been modified to fit a 25/30 setup, could be ever so slightly misaligned.

[T04GTR]

i have seen the same issue with the "good" balances. ross fuff bond/race series,and ati. you really have to have the belt very tight. because the ps belt hub is un-dampened. hense will fly off when there are any harmonics produced by the crankshaft.

just have the belt really tight.

[Dale FZ1]

^ +1. I experienced a bit of power steering belt walk at higher rpm. Thought I had more than enough tension, but turned out that I did not.

Also try keeping it from smacking on the limiter and see if the problem goes away.

[R32 TT]

If you call Ross, they gave a seperate idler setup..

You also won't have to tighten the belt up so much.

http://blog.rossperformanceparts.com/alloy-power-steering-idler-kit/

[nisskid]

I'm already running a RB25 P/S pump and have already eliminated HICAS and have a custom P/S reservoir.

Run-It-Hard

Thanks, will try CBC and bursons today. I would have thought I could have found one on the net through Ross or ATI but they have nothing!

The Mafia

If anything I would expect the additional power / torque to make the belt "slip" and have the harmonic balancer spin inside the belt not "grip" and throw it. Also the load of the P/S pump is a constant force so the belt isn't under any additional force from the extra power. I'm kinda thinking now that my engine is flexing a fair bit more with the additional torque and may be throwing out the alignment of the belt. This would cause the belt to run straight when free revving but not when under load. My plenum is making contact with my clutch slave (can see the marks) with the additional power so engine is definately flexing more than before.

But today I'm off to source a 3 rib pulley and see if that solves the dramas, as long as it's fixed the technicalaties of why it's happening can stay unknown!

rb25 pumps are 3 rib pulleys, at least all the ones ive seen :S

[09ONE_32]

i have seen the same issue with the "good" balances. ross fuff bond/race series,and ati. you really have to have the belt very tight. because the ps belt hub is un-dampened. hense will fly off when there are any harmonics produced by the crankshaft.

just have the belt really tight.

I knew I couldn't be the only one that has had this drama. I definately believe the p/s hub is undampened as I have been able to hit boost and it will stay on however it seems when I hit rev limiter is when the problem really happens.

Dale FZ1

I try and keep it off limiter but it comes onto boost like a freight train and goes from ~4000rpm to rev limit instantly in 2nd / 3rd. 4th gear can keep it off limiter momentarily if I pedal it but if I havent lost the belt in 2nd or 3rd it's gone by the time I back off in 4th lol. I have got another belt so will crank some serious tension into it (more than I think I need) and see how I go.

scotty nm35

They are nice looking underdriven 4 rib pulleys. I found lots of them!

R32 TT

Awesome! I was thikning about an idler or something of the like if all else failed as a last resort before changing to a Gilmer drive kinda setup. Lots of people are telling me to change the harmonic balancer back to a 4 rib to solve my problem. The thing is, my engine internals have been balanced with the Atomic balancer so if at all possible I dont want to throw that all out by putting a different balancer on just to solve what should be a relatively easy fix.

Looking at the Ross idler it seems that it would keep a more constant tension on the belt but also increase the tension as well? This is probably going to be my best long term solution as I'm guessing that placing epic amounts of tension on the belt will result in worn bearings in the p/s pump or would I just end up chewing out the belts faster (not an issue for me)because the belt is fairly small being a 3 rib to begin with?

[Sarumatix]

Do you have thermofan setup? If not the stock clutch fan can often flex enough to tap the belt usually resulting in a bit of damage to the belt itself and it coming off. This effect usually happens under high power load. I had a lot of problems with this and ended up having to trim the clutch fan blades slightly to stop it happening.

[T04GTR]

the idler is a good idea. it just stops the flapping happeneing. thge gibson set up is the best. but requires alot of differant parts.

[09ONE_32]

Do you have thermofan setup? If not the stock clutch fan can often flex enough to tap the belt usually resulting in a bit of damage to the belt itself and it coming off. This effect usually happens under high power load. I had a lot of problems with this and ended up having to trim the clutch fan blades slightly to stop it happening.

No I'm still using the clutch fan. I have found it to be the most effective for cooling as I mainly do trackwork with my car. I hadn't thought of the "fan flex" issue you describe but this could also be my problem as the p/s belt is closer to the fan than stock as well. I would love to actually see what the belt looks like after it has come off but have never been able to find one! Seems strange I know, but I honestly looked for over 30mins walking up and down a ~ 400m section of industrial estate trying to find the belt but it was nowhere (yep checked under the car to see if it was hung up anywhere)

T04GTR

Yeah I think I will just order the idler setup and stop f**king around, it's no fun trying to wind off full opposite lock off throttle on the exit of corners at the top of fourth when the car starts gripping up!