Detailed Black Gts-4

[Jonno34]

Adam could you just give a rough outline of your procedure/products are and brief explanations of the product?

Most people i know go

wash, clay block, machine polish, seal or wax (lots of other small important steps in between but thats the rough outline of it)

in my experience ive found the machine polish to remove all swirl marks and not leave any more behind/create swirl marks - how many stages of paint correction do you go through?

for a heavily swirled car a heavy cut and a medium cut will remove almost all swirl marks, and its followed by a extra fine cut to enhance shine and whatnot. It could be that you are using a hand polish for this extra fine cut? If so - use your RO! far easier and much better results

I dont think you really need any more cutting compound after a machine polish, just wash it off, apply something like FI Cleanse, and then seal it up!

[89 GTS-4]

Adam could you just give a rough outline of your procedure/products are and brief explanations of the product?

Most people i know go

wash, clay block, machine polish, seal or wax (lots of other small important steps in between but thats the rough outline of it)

in my experience ive found the machine polish to remove all swirl marks and not leave any more behind/create swirl marks - how many stages of paint correction do you go through?

for a heavily swirled car a heavy cut and a medium cut will remove almost all swirl marks, and its followed by a extra fine cut to enhance shine and whatnot. It could be that you are using a hand polish for this extra fine cut? If so - use your RO! far easier and much better results

I dont think you really need any more cutting compound after a machine polish, just wash it off, apply something like FI Cleanse, and then seal it up!

Really all depends on the type of paint mate, however I follow the exact same steps you alrealy mentioned on most 2pak paints. Step 1 with darker colours I generally cut with a heavy foam pad and either one of my favourite compounds like Farecla or an Autosmart one. I get these from a wholesaler that used to supply my detailing shop years ago. Then step 2 wash all compond off. Step 3 i use a lighter foam pad with a minimul cut and high wax content, and normally depending on the result finish buff with an even lighter pad. Then step 4 wash again. Step five finish wax (as you would say) all by hand

Lighter colours much the same but I love using a 3M wool pad for the initial buff with a kinda waxy autosmart polish, the wool pad does all the cutting so you can use a light polish/wax and just about not need a foam pad at all, then obviously finish off after a wash by hand. I love the 3M screw on type pad, they are awesome, but kinda dangerous if you dont know what your doing

Some paints tho mate like Euro cars, Audi, Jag etc have very soft flat colours, no mettalic in it. Very diffiucult to machine polish, near impossible to not create swirls with a machine which creates more work by hand afterwards. I detailed for a company called Solitaire over here in Adelaide which is an Audi, Jag , Lambo, Bentley, Volkswagon, and Skoda dealer, some of the toughest paint I've had to work with.

They get all salt spray over them from sitting on the docks and I was having to machine polish brand new vehicles straight off the boat! Pain in the ass

[immacreflections]

Jonno i merely suggested sanding the clearcoat blend line only to try and smooth it off then machine polishing it, to the previous author. Mitch is thinking im talking about sanding a whole car. Helps if he was to read the entire post before flaming lol. But whatever let him flame if he likes.

As for finishing by hand yes you are right in saying a wax is great for sealing off. On darker cars that i have machine polished, after the wash stage i like to hand polish/seal with a product which is high wax with a very minimul amount of cutter in it, like one of my favourites Super Resin "Polish". It helps with any minor swirl marks from machine polishing .

Really all depends on the type of paint mate, however I follow the exact same steps you alrealy mentioned on most 2pak paints. Step 1 with darker colours I generally cut with a heavy foam pad and either one of my favourite compounds like Farecla or an Autosmart one. I get these from a wholesaler that used to supply my detailing shop years ago. Then step 2 wash all compond off. Step 3 i use a lighter foam pad with a minimul cut and high wax content, and normally depending on the result finish buff with an even lighter pad. Then step 4 wash again. Step five finish wax (as you would say) all by hand

Lighter colours much the same but I love using a 3M wool pad for the initial buff with a kinda waxy autosmart polish, the wool pad does all the cutting so you can use a light polish/wax and just about not need a foam pad at all, then obviously finish off after a wash by hand. I love the 3M screw on type pad, they are awesome, but kinda dangerous if you dont know what your doing

Some paints tho mate like Euro cars, Audi, Jag etc have very soft flat colours, no mettalic in it. Very diffiucult to machine polish, near impossible to not create swirls with a machine which creates more work by hand afterwards. I detailed for a company called Solitaire over here in Adelaide which is an Audi, Jag , Lambo, Bentley, Volkswagon, and Skoda dealer, some of the toughest paint I've had to work with.

They get all salt spray over them from sitting on the docks and I was having to machine polish brand new vehicles straight off the boat! Pain in the ass

Ok Adam lets go from the start if you think my advice to not use 1200 grit is flaming you ie:stopping people from ruining their paint.

If your are experienced and as good as you say then:

1) you would know wet sanding is hard and if you cant handle a rotary machine thne you shouldnt attempt sanding so most enthusiast are out there for giving that advice is plain wrong IMO

2) all cars have a pre delivery done on them not just the ones your worked on.........most detailers (non pre delivery and dealership) get lots of clients from the "detailers" doingpredelivery for reasons I will point out in one of your later post in a minute.

3) using 1200grit on a whole car or a spot is down right stupid IMO, using 2500 grit not meeter spot or whole car is the most aggressive I would ever go with as would most reputable detailers from my experience.

as for "after the wash stage i like to hand polish/seal with a product which is high wax with a very minimul amount of cutter in it" in your above post.

1) most polish and seal products or (all in ones) are not used by many reputable people as most people know in anything in life its hard to have one product do two totally different things just as good as using seperate items ie a polish and a sealant.

2) most sealants dont have a high wax content being that carnauba and other waxes are hard (paste) and most if not all sealants are liquid....well you see why it wouldnt work.

3) and as for having cutter and sealant....thats a no no, maybe using a cleaner fluid and sealant yes possible as per Klasse AIO

"Then step 2 wash all compond off" think you mean buff off but maybe Im wrong.

as for this "Step 3 i use a lighter foam pad with a minimul cut and high wax content," what is this polish with high wax content you speak off. IMO there is no REPUTABLE product like this.

Then you followed with this.."and normally depending on the result finish buff with an even lighter pad" buffing is the act of removing residue from the paint ie polish or wax after application, so ill assume you mean your give it an even lighter polish ala Jewelling the paint....if thats the case the wax you just applied prior.......has just been taken off.

and "Step five finish wax (as you would say) all by hand" a wax it a wax used to protect the paintwork and finish of a car....as your first called it a polish which would mean a minimal abbrasive compound used to remove minor imperfections, marring and swirls this is where the confusion started.

"3M wool pad for the initial buff with a kinda waxy autosmart polish" ...Wool pad.....waxy polish.......oh geeze sorry I wont comment on this Im sure from my above post you see why. Plus if you were doing brand new cars they wouldnt need a wool pad anyway in most cases

"the wool pad does all the cutting so you can use a light polish/wax and just about not need a foam pad at all" - This is why people bring cars after predelivery to be detailed because a wool pad is heavy cutting and will leave buffer trails and marring no matter what compound you use, thats why for a perfect fault free finish you HAVE to follow with a foam pad and compound then further refine it after with a polish and foam pad.

"Some paints tho mate like Euro cars, Audi, Jag etc have very soft flat colours, no mettalic in it. Very diffiucult to machine polish, near impossible to not create swirls with a machine which creates more work by hand afterwards" - Audi and Jag paint is like comparing Ferrari and Mercedes paint its chalk and cheese and totally differnt steps and combinations need to be taken for each.

As for "near impossible to not create swirls with a machine which creates more work by hand afterwards" :S I guarantee you can refine better with a machine than a hand polish no matter what, unless your using fillers by hand and not by machine. With the right pad and polish combination you would have no troubles leaving no trace of swirls or holograms in the paint as per some of my past work below.

This concludes another lesson in Mitchs detailing truth box ladies and gentleman. Over and Out

[89 GTS-4]

Geez mitch I reckon you take your job way too seriously, seeing as tho you took the time out to hi-jack my thread and post photos of your work, good on you. I cant even be bothered replying to all the crap you just wrote, get out of the thread mate and go polish a car or something....

Edited November 12, 2011 by 89 GTS-4

[Jonno34]

unfortunately most normal detailers dont quite the terminology right, as do the off the shelf companies

and my workplace also refers to paint correction as "buffing the paint"

I really wish there was some way of separating detailers from .. car cleaners :S? I applied at my workplace thinking I would be doing the sorts of things I normally do from home, instead I find myself applying crappy products I dont even know the purpose of and worrying about the swirl marks and other damage I'm doing to some poor unsuspecting customers car.

There is a vast difference between the two worlds.

But a jobs a job and I need some stable income

autosmart is definitely not one of my favourite brands - but we use it at work. i especially dislike their polishes/waxes - tbh i dont even know what they do anymore ... but I guess its cheap lol?

in the end of the day we all get quite good results, regardless of our understandings of the products we use ..

I do wish companies would label things correctly though! its frustrating for those who know better and those who dont, wont fully get to understand what their doing.

[immacreflections]

Geez mitch I reckon you take your job way too seriously, seeing as tho you took the time out to hi-jack my thread and post photos of your work, good on you. I cant even be bothered replying to all the crap you just wrote, get out of the thread mate and go polish a car or something....

I dont think I take it TOO seriously as its peoples prides and joy I work on and achieving the best results is a combination or method/knowledge, products, and passion. The reason why I "hijacked" your thread was due to terrible advice being given out as I show above there is alot you still need to learn so giving advice on wet sanding to hobbyist is something you shouldnt do. By the sounds of it even you shouldnt.

Over and Out