Mechanic Undertensioned Timing Belt, Mashed Valves And Want's Me To Pay For It?

[STAGTR]

G'day all,

After some feedback/advice. Am running slightly modified RB26 (early R32 donk) in a Stagea, w/ vernier cam gears, mild tomei cams, 700cc injectors, HKS 2530 turbos and bosch 044 pump. 320kw at all 4.

Situation: Took car to mechanic for 100,00km service, and got them to replace all the normal stuff plus idler/tensioner studs, cam and crank seals, rocker cover seals, full running gear sump/refill and fuel filter. I used all Nissan OEM gear except for Gates Racing Timing belt (blue one). I supplied all parts for them.

First time round, they messed up the timing by a tooth... no big drama, took it back and they fixed (no charge as expected). The water pump was also leaking at the elongated hole. So got them to rectify at same time, they didnt know how to fix it so I told them to use J-B Weld (or equivalent). They R&R after using the cold weld putty and then no probs. But the corker is they charge me for remove and replace water pump. I reckon its their problem, but being a reasonable bloke, I talk em down to half labour... if you don't know about the early R32's and the new "generic" RB26 water pump with the elongated hole from Nissan, this can happen.

When I pick it up, it's whirring/whining heavily at idle and throughout rev range. First I thought its just a belt (timing or acc) bedding in. So I take it home knowing I can check it and narrow down the culprit. I use the old screwdriver as a stethoscope trick and narrow it down to the first couple of camshaft buckets under the rocker cover. Lo and behold the timing belt is so tight it sounds like a guitar string when plucked. I know that the blue gates belts are notoriously "Noisy", however the noise is coming from the cam bucket where the cam wheel is being pulled so tight it is causing contact with the first two cam buckets/bridges. This is not cool and a catastrophic engine failure waiting to happen.

I take it back to them, with print outs from the OEM factory service manual for installing and tensioning timing belts, show them that it is too tight and tell them they need to retension the belt so my cam doesn't snap at full noise. They agree it is too tight, say "no worries" and take the car. I'm trying to look after them and my car to avoid a snapped camshaft. That afternoon, I get an awesome phone call saying that the belt slipped and the engine stopped!!

Turns out, they've undertensioned the belt and there's only compression on one cylinder... being an interference engine = mashed valves.

Here's the kicker... the mechanic says its not his fault... apparently "you should never retension timing belts" -> (but they did it anyway)... and they were just "working under instruction of the customer" so that makes it no liability for them?!?!

I reckon that's a crock of sheit and they need to pay for all labour to remove & refit head, as well as reco the head and replace all busted gear. He says he refuses to be out of pocket for this and reckons 40 HOURS OF LABOUR PLUS HEAD RECO COST TO BE BORNE BY ME !!!

Advice please, is he smoking drugs and should pay... or does he have a leg to stand on?

40 Hours is ridiculous, maybe 14 hours if he went really slow... it can't take that long to remove plenum and turbos and remove head. PITA I agree, but not 40 freakin hours.

Should I seek legal advice? go to fair trading? get it fixed by someone who knows what they are doing and attempt to recoup costs?

[Dobz]

Sorry to hear about it. If that was me I would've lost it if he said it was my fault.

Did you get a receipt for the work he did to loosen the belt?

[StevenCJR31]

Dont take this lying down, if the mechanic who did this bodgie work wont fix it or at least hand it over to someone who does know what he is doing then tellem fair trading will get a phone call

[Blazk]

I would seek legal advice and contact the fair trading company. No way i would pay for someone else's incompetence. Write up a firm yet non threatening letter to the mechanics saying you will take this matter further.

[boostn0199]

Wtf thats bs not accepting responsibility aslong as you didnt fo any work and there the only ones that tpuched it there fault also since they agreeed it was too tight and re did it again there fault and thats bs about retensioning a belt it only applies if the belt has already been in for a while and worn in theres nothing wrong with retensioning a new belt.

[ylwgtr2]

im not on anyones side here but id would have used the correct pump to begin with as with alloy and steel expanding at dif rates i see the devcon/jb weld what ever being a band aid(i tried to fit one Toa 32 once before and the customer sent it back and got the right pump)and also i cant see how a tight belt would cause the bucket to bottom out as its on the other side of the first journal....theres no way that would happen.....they def cocked up by the sounds of it but i have a rule....and thats never let customers get there own parts.....nothing worse than having something sitting around clogging up your shop after getting the wrong parts supplied by the customer.....the above 32 that i done the guy supplied his own stuff(without tensioners/iders/studs after i told him they should be changed)then it dropped the tensioner and mashed the valves the next week .......i helped the guy and fixed it for him....it IS a huge job.....much much more than 14 hours including the headjob

Edited November 7, 2011 by ylwgtr2

[GTR_JOEY]

^^ yea head jobs aren't free lol

[Kenna802]

I kind of in that grey area with my car as well, Supplying parts and getting someone else to do it seems a bad idea ( my experience anyway) at least if the mechanic gets the parts and breaks them you may have some leg to stand on but not if you supply them. The other thing that worries my with your post is the number of times the car had to be brought back ( If it feels wrong go some where else!!) and the fact is the mechanic now has enough "grey area" to shift the blame

[STAGTR]

Thanks for all the comments/feedback.

A couple of points,

- I only ever supply parts to ensure the right stuff gets fitted rather than some aftermarket junk.

- The only water pump that nissan makes for RB26DETT's is the one with the elongated hole, there is no other OEM alternative. It supersedes the original water pump for R32's.

- I felt a sinking feeling every time I took it back, but it is, or should be, on them to fix their eff ups. I can't stand having to take it somewhere else and pay again to have it done right.

- I haven't paid for their "retensioning" as it was merely a rectifcation of their overtensioning. Already paid for the timing belt to be fitted so didn't have to pay again. Will need to get a job card at least I guess.

- Don't try and do the righty by the local guy, don't risk it, just take it to someone who has experience with your vehicle and knows what they are doing. Even for a simple job like 100,000km service. Ended up costing more than an established workshop despite me supplying the parts.

- Never let the missus convince you to just pay for a mechanic to do work you can do yourself!

I have called fair trading and spoken to a Nissan specialist (workshop, modifier and tuner). Consensus seems to be they they messed up and should be fully liable. Also, to either pull the head or remove the whole donk and pull the head is apparently a time consuming job. The last thing you want to hear is someone tel you it might be more economically viable to pull the donk and throw in a replacement.

I will give the workshop a final chance to rectify their stuffup, as is their legal right, record the conversation and lodge a formal claim with Fair Trading. Further I will tow the car to the Nissan specialist and get an independent report on the situation and cause of failure. Pending the outcome of Fair Trading will just get workshop to conduct repairs with bill to be picked up by crappy local mechanic.

Not a quick resolution, bound to be painful and cost me more money regardless of the outcome. Will post up updates as they come to hand.

[mad082]

Thanks for all the comments/feedback.

A couple of points,

- I only ever supply parts to ensure the right stuff gets fitted rather than some aftermarket junk.

- The only water pump that nissan makes for RB26DETT's is the one with the elongated hole, there is no other OEM alternative. It supersedes the original water pump for R32's.

- I felt a sinking feeling every time I took it back, but it is, or should be, on them to fix their eff ups. I can't stand having to take it somewhere else and pay again to have it done right.

- I haven't paid for their "retensioning" as it was merely a rectifcation of their overtensioning. Already paid for the timing belt to be fitted so didn't have to pay again. Will need to get a job card at least I guess.

- Don't try and do the righty by the local guy, don't risk it, just take it to someone who has experience with your vehicle and knows what they are doing. Even for a simple job like 100,000km service. Ended up costing more than an established workshop despite me supplying the parts.

- Never let the missus convince you to just pay for a mechanic to do work you can do yourself!

I have called fair trading and spoken to a Nissan specialist (workshop, modifier and tuner). Consensus seems to be they they messed up and should be fully liable. Also, to either pull the head or remove the whole donk and pull the head is apparently a time consuming job. The last thing you want to hear is someone tel you it might be more economically viable to pull the donk and throw in a replacement.

I will give the workshop a final chance to rectify their stuffup, as is their legal right, record the conversation and lodge a formal claim with Fair Trading. Further I will tow the car to the Nissan specialist and get an independent report on the situation and cause of failure. Pending the outcome of Fair Trading will just get workshop to conduct repairs with bill to be picked up by crappy local mechanic.

Not a quick resolution, bound to be painful and cost me more money regardless of the outcome. Will post up updates as they come to hand.

2 the 2 points in bold,

1: plenty of workshops with good reputations have stuffed up too. mate of mine had his xr6t built by an apparently experienced workshop. long story short, they used stock parts in some vital parts of the engine when they should've used aftermarket ones (wasn't a case of him telling them not to, he handed the car over, told them what final outcome he wanted and for them to make it happen). $20,000 worth of repair bills later he was fighting them in court and has since heard of other people getting similar problems because of the workshop cutting corners.

2: make sure you know what is legal when it comes to recording conversations if you are planning on using it as evidence.

[Ziller]

Mate I hope it all works out for you, record him anyway to keep a track record of any bullshit he may give you for your own record, I did this and as a result received a $12,000+ out of court settlement from a workshop, he also found out what a nasty bastard I can be.

[jjman]

Mate I hope it all works out for you, record him anyway to keep a track record of any bullshit he may give you for your own record, I did this and as a result received a $12,000+ out of court settlement from a workshop, he also found out what a nasty bastard I can be.

this. You would be surprised how much you can actually win if you man up on it. Document things properly, calculate real costs, get a legal letter written up and see how quickly attitude changes.

[Kinks]

That really sucks dude. I had significant problems with a particular workshop and after the 2nd return visit I said to myself you know what, these guys are obviously talentless f**kwits so if you keep taking your car back it will probably come back worse each time.

Unfortunately you've just proven that statement for me.

[GTR-N1]

Mate I hope it all works out for you, record him anyway to keep a track Record of any bullshit he may give you for your own record, I did this and as a result received a $12,000+ out of court settlement from a workshop, he also found out what a nasty bastard I can be.

this. You would be surprised how much you can actually win if you man up on it. Document things properly, calculate real costs, get a legal letter written up and see how quickly attitude changes.

Yes, the main thing the mechanic will be afraid of besides your lawyer, will be your Detailed-To-The-Minute-Diary-Of-Quotes-And-Events which is regarded as credible.

[STAGTR]

Update:

I drafted a letter/notice of demand for the repair of my car and issued to the workshop on Thu 10 Nov 11. Gave them until 1700h on Fir 11 Nov 11 to inform me if they were going to exercise their "first right of repair"...

Got a call on Fri arvo from the owner telling me that they will repair the vehicle and that the workshop had a culture of customer satisfaction and that they didn't want that to change. He also said that they pretty much had the head off and the head guy would be around on Mon to collect the head. 2-3 day turn around on the head work. I informed him that I had aftermarket tomei cams in the head and to ensure that they found their way back into the head when it was put back together.

At no stage did he admit liability or outright say that they would pay for it all, however it is good to know that at least something is being done, even if it isn't my preferred choice of repairer! Once I get it back I will take it straight to a reputable workshop to get a review/report on the work done and if all good, a retune (the old one was a way too fuelly off boost).

I am paranoid about valve damage to piston faces... sure you can grind down and blend any damage, but when you're running 20psi, it's gonna be more sensitive to combustion chamber volume mismatches and any hot spots created from not doing the job spot on, which will lead directly to pre-ignition/detonation under load.

I will add that I spoke to a lawyer mate and to Shannons, who I have comprehensive car insurance with. Shannons will cover it as someone else has caused damage to my car, and they can prove who it was and will represent me should I make a claim (however my documentation will have to be spot on... no dramas). My mate said it was cut and dry as to the workshops liability for their actions and gave me some appropriate words and references for my letter, some of them directly from the Fair Trading website.

As most have said ^^^, document it all, compile your statement of events, draft up a letter of demand and stick to your guns.

I will post up my letter of demand once I get the car back and it is all resolved, would hate to give anyone duff gen in the meantime

Have a good weekend all, mine is looking a little better now!

[GTR-N1]

Keep it up Pete - and remain stern and civil (business-like).