Batteries

[komdogg]

Just wondering what type of bettery people would reccomend for an r33 gtst series 2. I want it to go in the stock location in the boot. Currently looking at Repco "ultra-high performance" or whatever its called 390cca, Braille no weight b2618. Probably don't want to spend as much as an Optima costs right now. Are the braille's any good for daily use? It says best for dual battery applications but is there actually a difference in batteries? Car is a daily driver with all ancillaries (aircon, biiiig sound system, etc). Can the Braille go on its side? I know Repco one can't though it still fits fine, just want to make sure I have something with a sturdy construction and so on.

Opinions appreciated

[Chris Rogers]

optima - job done. drop a D31 red in there and redo the battery wiring while you are at it.

[Carbon 34]

+1 chris

Optima yellow top if the car has a big sound system and you dont sit in the park for hours pounding car must be driven for a while to recharge or it will fail

Red top if the system is just a couple hundred watt amp/sub , good for daily drivers

those Braile bateries are nothing more then a deep cycle emergency light battery with carbon case. not recommended unless you run a pure race car and charge it up on the proper charger

for bigger sound systems you need another approach again.

Odessy is another one. XS is another AGM , most are re-branded versions of the Odessy

and change the connections from the lame jap little ones if you still have those. and update the power/ground as well. and run a ground from the alternator bracket bolt to the chassis and or battery on front mounted battery cars

rear mounted has to be sealed , spill proof (ADR defect if you run unvented normal style battery in boot, and not safe at all ).... just buy a optima or AGM mat battery and you will be done for many years, save the hassle and do it right the first time.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Carbon 34

[komdogg]

optima - job done. drop a D31 red in there and redo the battery wiring while you are at it.

D31 wont fit even on its side. Max size is 200x240x200 in an r33. D35 fits by just 2mm so it's looking like I'll just bite the bullet and go that. Ground will be 0 gauge from battery > distribution block > 3x 4 gauge ground points

2x amps and capacitor will be 4 gauge > distribution block > 2x 0 gauge ground points. This way wont have to drill any new holes in chassis and can all be grounded to big thick bolts. should be no worries.

[Carbon 34]

what is the max current of the 2 amps ? or fuses fitted to them total ?

0 ga might be overkill and costly

red tops are a starting battery, dont hold up to major abuse of massive car audio . I would go yellow top if your pulling a lot of power or even another brand for bigger systems , or Batt Cap out back as well as battery?

Edited November 14, 2011 by Carbon 34

[komdogg]

what is the max current of the 2 amps ? or fuses fitted to them total ?

0 ga might be overkill and costly

red tops are a starting battery, dont hold up to major abuse of massive car audio . I would go yellow top if your pulling a lot of power or even another brand for bigger systems , or Batt Cap out back as well as battery?

oh yeah my bad I was talking about size not red vs yellow top, I know I need yellow. Went to a battery shop and sized one up; a D35 yellow and looks like it'll just fit. Also have a 2 farad capacitor. and as for total current the fuses add up to 250amps, so I'd say 0ga is a good idea.

[Carbon 34]

O ga is mandatory , the others wont handle the current draw without melting over time.

2 farads cap, is only good for 2000watts , if your pulling 250amps max = roughly 3000 watts output ? which exceeds the capacitors abilitiy

depending on what type of amps your running, class D, A/B limited /A/B no current limiting etc. depends on if the cap will handle the load or possibly burst the little hidden valve on the top eventually.

your going to have to do a serious update of the cars grounds , to the engine block to frame, or when the bass hits the computer will malfuction as the voltage sags. not a good thing on any EFI car , worse with high power turbo

and the ground in back had better be a large bolt, with paint stripped off around it, and washers and nylock nut on the backside if you find one going thru the sheet metal.

do it right the first time and fuse it right to protect the car, 250 amps will burn right thru just about any metal it shorts out on. a dead short unfused to the battery could draw more then 2000 amps for a split second !!!! while the car goes up in flames.

hint , put a thin couple mm thick rubber pad cut to fit under the battery to stop vibrations a bit, it helps the longevity of a battery, find at clark rubber, a few bucks . better then metal on plastic case

and you will have to change all your battery clamps to quality ones for car audio, and after the first hour or so of driving, stop to tighten them again, most get loose after heated the first round and will twist around

sounds like your going to be pushing pretty serious sounds at that power level.. my amps produce nearly 10 hp...lol if you convert KW to HP..lol

I know the HP freaks cringe at that , in the quest for who has the most KW on the dyno...

lol

[komdogg]

O ga is mandatory , the others wont handle the current draw without melting over time.

2 farads cap, is only good for 2000watts , if your pulling 250amps max = roughly 3000 watts output ? which exceeds the capacitors abilitiy

depending on what type of amps your running, class D, A/B limited /A/B no current limiting etc. depends on if the cap will handle the load or possibly burst the little hidden valve on the top eventually.

your going to have to do a serious update of the cars grounds , to the engine block to frame, or when the bass hits the computer will malfuction as the voltage sags. not a good thing on any EFI car , worse with high power turbo

and the ground in back had better be a large bolt, with paint stripped off around it, and washers and nylock nut on the backside if you find one going thru the sheet metal.

do it right the first time and fuse it right to protect the car, 250 amps will burn right thru just about any metal it shorts out on. a dead short unfused to the battery could draw more then 2000 amps for a split second !!!! while the car goes up in flames.

hint , put a thin couple mm thick rubber pad cut to fit under the battery to stop vibrations a bit, it helps the longevity of a battery, find at clark rubber, a few bucks . better then metal on plastic case

and you will have to change all your battery clamps to quality ones for car audio, and after the first hour or so of driving, stop to tighten them again, most get loose after heated the first round and will twist around

sounds like your going to be pushing pretty serious sounds at that power level.. my amps produce nearly 10 hp...lol if you convert KW to HP..lol

I know the HP freaks cringe at that , in the quest for who has the most KW on the dyno...

lol

yep. 4200watt max altogether. I've had this system in my old car for well over a year so I know pretty much what I gotta do in regards to grounding. But I'm still going to up the number of ground points from what I had before. It's going to be a 0ga and a 4ga ground from the battery in the boot to the chassis (big bolts, paint sanded off) with the 3x grounds from the sound system (amps and cap) going to a distribution block to 2x 0ga grounds once again big bolts with paint sanded off. In regards to the cap I thought it was about ~1 farad per 1000watts as well but when I was buying the guys at the audio shop thought 2 farads should be enough. To be honest it doesn't get hot or anything and when I put it in my old setup it stopped the lights flickering when the bass hit. 3000watt mono is class D and 1200watt 4 channel is class AB. Also this system is a bit of a downsized version to what I had previously (8 speakers before, plus 2 subs, now is going to be 6 speakers, plus 1 sub). Don't see why I really need to upgrade grounds in the engine bay as the current goes straight from the battery in the boot through the amps to the ground? And the battery itself is well grounded in the boot. So there should be no excess current going through any of the cars electrical systems. And the optima battery should deliver a nice even flow no worries. Should I be looking at RMS or peak power when choosing a capacitor? Would the amount of current drawn by the actual speakers have an impact on this? When I've got the system cranking the cap never went below 12-13 volts so it should be fine I reckon? I'll post my install in this thread when I do it in the next week for comments/suggested improvements.

[komdogg]

oh and yeah forgot to mention I use an inline ANL fuse holder with 300amp ANL fuse between battery and distribution block to the amps and cap

[Carbon 34]

yep. 4200watt max altogether. I've had this system in my old car for well over a year so I know pretty much what I gotta do in regards to grounding. But I'm still going to up the number of ground points from what I had before. It's going to be a 0ga and a 4ga ground from the battery in the boot to the chassis (big bolts, paint sanded off) with the 3x grounds from the sound system (amps and cap) going to a distribution block to 2x 0ga grounds once again big bolts with paint sanded off. In regards to the cap I thought it was about ~1 farad per 1000watts as well but when I was buying the guys at the audio shop thought 2 farads should be enough. To be honest it doesn't get hot or anything and when I put it in my old setup it stopped the lights flickering when the bass hit. 3000watt mono is class D and 1200watt 4 channel is class AB. Also this system is a bit of a downsized version to what I had previously (8 speakers before, plus 2 subs, now is going to be 6 speakers, plus 1 sub). Don't see why I really need to upgrade grounds in the engine bay Because all of your current comes thru your charging system on the engine , ground the alternator bracket to the frame with a 0 GA (4GA min) and upgrade the Alterator Charging wire with a 4GA since the thing cant produce more amps then the wire can handle ,( factory is 8ga cheapest wire they could find that barely meets specs ) dont forget your coilpacks etc run off the same battery your car stereo is using, so unless you want misfires when the bass hits which can result in a damaged engine , better safe then sorry ? as the current goes straight from the battery in the boot through the amps to the ground?Unibody cars have horrible grounding depending on which panel it is ? since its spot welds, and glue/silicone holding it together , and frame cars have issues as well but solid steel And the battery itself is well grounded in the boot. So there should be no excess current going through any of the cars electrical systems. And the optima battery should deliver a nice even flow no worries. Should I be looking at RMS or peak power when choosing a capacitor? 1k watts is 1 farad , the amps max power rating is used as a guide Would the amount of current drawn by the actual speakers have an impact on this? Yes OHMS law can double the power when the speaker load is cut in half from 4ohms to 2 ohms , if the amp can produce it stable and voltage/current is available from cap/battery but it can also double the current load as well. some amps are stiff power regulated and wont double power just depends on the amp , on a side note, halfing your speaker load also halfs your dampening factor , the ability of your amp to change the speaker cone direction tight and fast. so you can end up with a muddy/loose/flappy sounding sub in the end but a cap can help that issue a bit by keeping the transistor rail voltage higher for longer When I've got the system cranking the cap never went below 12-13 volts so it should be fine I reckon? I'll post my install in this thread when I do it in the next week for comments/suggested improvements. the cap when they fry they either just do it silent with a puff and little fuss or go bang like a firecracker. they dont get hot first. its a split second death dead shorts are the most common death to a cap. so keep the cap wires close to the fuse as possible. they can arc weld pretty good , just long enough for a big fire

your cap will most likely be ok, you may have to double up on them depending on your ear bleeding volume on a hot day with the a/c on . caps need to be installed in parrallel for power applications for those playing at home. best to find same brand /model just to be sure compatability . and dont forget to use the inline resistor to charge it up or old school test light or sparks will fly.. the resistor will get damn hot so watch out

[komdogg]

yeah you're right. Can't believe I didn't see that haha its so obvious. and here i was hoping i finally wouldn't have to run a huge ass cable all the way through my car =[

[Carbon 34]

you dont have to run huge cable if your car has the battery in back, just beef up the cables off the engine block to frame ground.and 4 ga to main interface of car accessories from alternator

mine has 2 x 0 ga run thru it... from the front...like two blue garden hoses haha

[komdogg]

you dont have to run huge cable if your car has the battery in back, just beef up the cables off the engine block to frame ground.and 4 ga to main interface of car accessories from alternator

mine has 2 x 0 ga run thru it... from the front...like two blue garden hoses haha

oh right. thought you meant 4 gauge from alternator charging to battery in the boot if it's just from alternator to fuse box in engine bay and another from alternator to ground I'll probably just 0 gauge them both. better to be safe than sorry.

[Carbon 34]

O ga on the alterantor can be a issue, the weight can break off the the bakelite around the bolt easy and the type of connection it has , small bolt compared to the big hole in 0 ga wire terminal and using washers is less then optimium , creates another spot to crust up /create resitance from metal compatability issues, gold plating/nickel plating to zinc or cadnium plating washers isnt a good idea. 4 ga is fine up to 120 amps max , nissan alternators are normally 80ish max amps on a good day.

plus saves you a few bucks on parts and wire cost.

[komdogg]

O ga on the alterantor can be a issue, the weight can break off the the bakelite around the bolt easy and the type of connection it has , small bolt compared to the big hole in 0 ga wire terminal and using washers is less then optimium , creates another spot to crust up /create resitance from metal compatability issues, gold plating/nickel plating to zinc or cadnium plating washers isnt a good idea. 4 ga is fine up to 120 amps max , nissan alternators are normally 80ish max amps on a good day.

plus saves you a few bucks on parts and wire cost.

ok done. 4ga from alternator active terminal to the fuse box, also left the stock wire in place as it's integrated into a loom so didnt feel like splicing into my nice stock uncut harness. stock ground left in; it goes from block just behind the alternator to chassis (alternator grounds to block through its bracket) and added an extra 4ga ground from the back of the alternator to the chassis. should be more than enough I reckon? I may go back later and up the stock ground from block just behind alternator > chassis with a 0ga if you think its necessary or I'm in the mood for some overkill.

Tomorrow going into the boot. Will be upgrading the fusebox > battery positive terminal cable to a 0ga. and a 0ga and a 4ga to ground from the negative.