What to do with overly hard springs???

[JXL]

Hey guys

just bought a skyline that was modded with some damn hard Endless Zeal Function Basic shocks with 600 pound springs in the front and 450 pound in the back.

Went down to WA Suspensions and they said wayyy to damn hard, setup for crazy drifting not street driving.

They don't know much about the Zeal shocks or what the recommended spring rates should be but they talked to the distributor in Sydney and ordered some 300 pound Eibach Pro springs which they said should make a difference.

My main concern is does anyone know what the recommended spring rates should be for street driving and does anyone know if the Zeal shocks are worth keeping?

I know the Zeals are good shocks and are worth about $1800 but if it isn't worth putting on for street i'll sell them off.

[jlnewton]

I had the same problem with a set of APEXi T-max coilovers that I picked up. I have since had them rebuilt and got some king springs, 300lbs at the front and 225lbs at the rear. They had 500lbs on the front and 420lbs on the rear when I got them. I am fitting them next week so it should be interesting. If you get the spring rates right then they should be fine. Thats what I asked for with mine and that is the spring rates I was recommended for a street application.

[Sydneykid]

Hey guys

just bought a skyline that was modded with some damn hard Endless Zeal Function Basic shocks with 600 pound springs in the front and 450 pound in the back.

Went down to WA Suspensions and they said wayyy to damn hard, setup for crazy drifting not street driving.

They don't know much about the Zeal shocks or what the recommended spring rates should be but they talked to the distributor in Sydney and ordered some 300 pound Eibach Pro springs which they said should make a difference.

My main concern is does anyone know what the recommended spring rates should be for street driving and does anyone know if the Zeal shocks are worth keeping?

I know the Zeals are good shocks and are worth about $1800 but if it isn't worth putting on for street i'll sell them off.

What I did, and have done to number of Skylines, is to put the rear springs (450 lbs) in the front and buy a set of Whiteline 200 lbs springs for the rear. The Zeal shocks are velocity sensitive and the rebound valving will handle lower spring rates no problems. The lower spring rate has a lower velocity of rebound and, being a hydraulic device, the shock valving responds accordingly.

The bump valving may be a little firm but that won't affect the spring adversely. It may just mean you don't get as nice a ride as would be possible with more compliant compression valving.

Hope that helps

[JXL]

Thanks for the replies guys,

yeah i think i am getting 300 pound all round or 250 pound for the back.

Gonna have to flog off the left over Zeal springs.

Cool to know i have a similiar problem as someone else, let me know how yours go.

Sydneykid with the Zeal shocks how hard to do think they will be after the springs are down? You said it may not be as nice a ride but is it going to be bang bang bump alot still??

[Sydneykid]

Thanks for the replies guys,

yeah i think i am getting 300 pound all round or 250 pound for the back.

Gonna have to flog off the left over Zeal springs.

Cool to know i have a similiar problem as someone else, let me know how yours go.

Sydneykid with the Zeal shocks how hard to do think they will be after the springs are down? You said it may not be as nice a ride but is it going to be bang bang bump alot still??

Hi JXL, I believe 250 lbs is too high for the rear, unless you have a mega sound system in the boot or carry 4 passengers a lot. I never go over 200 lbs, even in a race car.

As for damper rates, I really have no idea, it is very much a personal decision. I would simply try them and see. If they are OK for you, then sell the Zeal springs only. If not, sell the whole ZEAL kit and buy some Konis or Bilsteins and use the new springs with them.

Hope that helps some more

[JXL]

Cool thanks for that.

I'll see what happens after Wednesday hopefully it will be done by then.

[Steve]

I need some hard springs for my Ohlins. They seem to use stock shape springs, top of the spring definately, not sure about the bottom? but looks stock size (I have changed the fronts out, but havent got any springs for the rear yet)

I have upgraded the fronts to 8kg, and they are heaps better, but I think I may need to go harder still, and some 6 or 8kg springs for he rears.

So, if anyone has some that they need to get rid of, and can send me the coil size top and bottom and a photo, I may be interested in picking them up.

Either that, or if someone wants to swap some ohlins height and damper adjustable with springs, firm ride, but not hard.....

[knore]

hey ive got tein type HAs and i assume tein springs cos they are green too

Ive got my car going into whiteline for the handling kit fairly soon,

I was thinking of getting new softer springs because the ride at the moment is too hard, i feel every little bump etc and it gets annoying after awhile especially with the roads around here.

Also, is there anyway i can fix the problem above, and raise my front an inch or 2 with just springs?

[Sydneykid]

OK Steve I'll bite... Why do you need hard springs?

[Steve]

Because the ones I have on there are too soft. I have gone for a ride in a supra with 12kg front and 10 rear, and a S14 with the same, both lightened - They handle like go karts, which I would like.

Having said that, I just lowered the car a bit more (340mm wheel centre to arch) and its a great improvement, as is fitting RE540s to the rear, as they have much stiffer sidewalls than the revspecs I had before - the extra grip is nice too - but still, the ride is too soft.

[knore]

When i try to push the front or back of my car up or down it doesnt budge more than about an inch, its great for direct steering and at anything over 100km/h

but below 100 its ridiculous on roads,

Sydneykid: Can i just tell Fulcrum to install bigger, but softer springs on the front, so to soften it up a little while also raising the front a few inches?

[Steve]

I thought HAs were height and damper adjustable?

[knore]

Thats the thing, i dont know if they are or not

been told this and that etc so im not 100% sure

i spose ill just ask them when i take the car in and they can have a look

what exacly does 'damper' control mean,

is that how hard it is? like how hard it bounces.. leeway etc ?

cos that would be good if they just go yeh its adjustable, then i can soften the ride and raise front up.

[Sydneykid]

Because the ones I have on there are too soft.  I have gone for a ride in a supra with 12kg front and 10 rear, and a S14 with the same, both lightened - They handle like go karts, which I would like.

Having said that, I just lowered the car a bit more (340mm wheel centre to arch) and its a great improvement, as is fitting RE540s to the rear, as they have much stiffer sidewalls than the revspecs I had before - the extra grip is nice too - but still, the ride is too soft.

Stabiliser bars?

[Amaru]

Stabiliser bars?

I agree with this, while im no suspension expert, my car currently has rebuilt standard GTR shocks with some funky green Japanese springs in them (the color coding looks the same as project mu stuff) which are reasonably stiff, but not too bad. The car however at stock height handled like shit, body rolling all over the place and didnt feel very stable.

Ended up getting a whiteline handling kit (front and rear swaybars, castor bushes etc) and I was amazed at the improvement it made. The car still has a bit of roll in it, but feels *ALOT* more stable when driving hard, and would be comparable to lowering the car/hardening the springs to improve handling.

Im now an advocate of doing things properly rather than just slamming a car on stiff springs to improve the handling... its a whole package, it was explained to me the suspension is there to do one thing, cushion the bumps in the road. The sway bars and other bits and pieces are there to provide the handling aspect to the car.

[Steve]

Have dont front and rear whiteline swaybars, both set to max, front camber arms, front castor rods, rear cradle bushes, and rear hardmount bushes. Still need hicas lock and rear camber arms and front tyres with more grip (understeering a bit still)

But, the thing is Ihave been in other skylines that handle better than mine did, with less suspension mods but lower, and firmer springs.

[EnricoPalazzo]

Thats the thing, i dont know if they are or not  

been told this and that etc so im not 100% sure  

i spose ill just ask them when i take the car in and they can have a look  

what exacly does 'damper' control mean,  

is that how hard it is? like how hard it bounces.. leeway etc ?  

cos that would be good if they just go yeh its adjustable, then i can soften the ride and raise front up.

HA's are height and damper adjustable. Just check the suspension, if it has a thread going up it then its adjustable, otherwise they arent HAs.

SydneyKid, how much handling difference can different damper rates make. Im thinking of tweeking mine to hopefully help my handling problems atm.

[Sydneykid]

SydneyKid, how much handling difference can different damper rates make. Im thinking of tweeking mine to hopefully help my handling problems atm.

Hi enricho, we very rarely change the springs rates on the race cars these days, hot, cold, wet, dry, bumpy track or smooth, the springs stay pretty much the same. But we change the damper settings all the time and the stabiliser bars are constantly adjusted to balance the chassis.

Damper technology has come a long way in last few years and we can do things with them that we used to have to do with springs and other adjustments. We have high and low speed adjustments on both bump and rebound. So we can do things like have the high speed bump nice and compliant so the wheel follows the road surface. Whilst at the same time have the low speed bump nice and firm to control the roll and squat (rear under acceleration) and dive (front under brakes).

So to answer your question, it really depends on how good the dampers are, in their adjustment.

[JXL]

When i try to push the front or back of my car up or down it doesnt budge more than about an inch, its great for direct steering and at anything over 100km/h

but below 100 its ridiculous on roads,

knore thats what mine are feeling like right now, noit doing enough freeway driving to make me ignore them.

So, if anyone has some that they need to get rid of, and can send me the coil size top and bottom and a photo, I may be interested in picking them up.

Steve i don't know what kilo rate these Zeal springs are that are coming off but they are 600pound front and 450pound spring rate in the back so if you want go cart type ride these will do it. I got a rough price estimate for the springs being about $450 for the set 2nd hand. I know the Zeal Function Basic shocks and springs coilover kit that I have on there no damper adjust is worth about $2200 new from Sydney. If you want you can buy these ones cause I got Eibach 350pound going in today.

I'll ask WA Suspensions what the kilo thing is and get a photo for you if you want.

PM me to discuss further.

THanks for the good information guys coming out in this thread.

[Steve]

JXL, thanks, but that is bit dear for me, new springs are cheaper.