What to do with overly hard springs???

[Sydneykid]

SK, do you use whiteline adjustable sway bars?  what is your preferred setting for spirited driving?

Cheers

Yep we use Whiteline adj stabiliser bars. For "spirited driving" on the road I like a little bit of understeer, it is good for that unexpected bump, puddle or wombat. So I run the front bar (27 mm on the GTST) in the middle, say setting 2 or 3 out of the 5. The rear (24 mm) is on the softest, or maybe up 1 out of the 5 settings.

On the track it really depends on which track, what the weather is like, how much rubber is down etc. Generally 3 or 4 on the front and 2 or 3 on the rear. I have never used 5 on both front and rear, I haven't found a track that smooth. Eastern Creek is close, so maybe at Philip Island I could, it would depend on the day.

On the GTR we run 24 mm bars front and rear, with similar settings. Although I tend to use the torque split controller to do some of the balancing that I use the bars to do on the 2wd. You can really get your brain all messed up if you play with both at once.

I tune the car on the track with the tyre temperatures, so when we go back to a track we have been to before I can dial in the settings before we even load the car onto the trailer. Then I just trim the bars at the track, as there is not enough time to really go through all the possible combinations of anti roll, damper bump and rebound settings, spring rates, camber, caster, toe and tyre pressures. When you add torque split to this equation, my brain hurts.

Note that we only use "R" tyres, generally you couldn't get anywhere near the same settings with "normal" road tyres. They simply wouldn't allow the slip angles that an "R" tyre does and still maintain grip.

Hope that helps

[JXL]

Hey SK,

just wondering then if the Zeal shocks are set up with hard fixed damper rates,

then these springs i got were way to hard anyways. I could have gotten softer ones may have made a bigger difference.

Might go and get a hold of some softer ones just to try.

Thanks man.

[Steve]

Hmm, perhaps I have the old type, I only have 4 adjustments on the front, and two on the rear? Thanks for the reply, it gives me a good starting point

[jlnewton]

Well all my stuff is now fitted to the GTR, consists of:-

Reconditioned APEXi T-max coilovers with king springs (F - 300lbs, R - 225lbs)

Cusco adj caster rod

Whiteline front camber adjustment bush

Cusco Rear adj camber arm

Height set at 355m from centre of wheel to guard front and rear.

Initial feeling is pretty good. Have only done 200km in the car since I got it back but it seems good. The overall ride on full soft is only marginly stiffer than stock if at all, but the car feels a little unbalanced at this setting. Either the front springs need to be stiffer, or the rear a little softer. There isn't much in it, but it doesn't feel right. If the front shocks are wound up to about half way (between full soft and full hard), and the rears left at full soft the car feels very good. It absorbs mid corner bumps well, but feels much more stable than the stock spring/shock setup.

The current alignment settings are as follows:-

Front

Camber = -1.5 deg

Caster = 4.0/4.5 deg

Rear

Camber = -1.0 deg

Can't recall the toe settings off the top of my head at the moment.

Next will be a set of whiteline adj sway bars. Depending how the first track day goes I may try some 350lbs springs at the front?? We shall see.

The car is still nice to drive, not too hard by any means. I think its pretty close to what I am looking for, a nice street package that I can do the odd track day with.

Any suggestions with the spring rates. I think I remember reading somewhere SK, that your wet weather spring rates were 350lbs front and 200lbs rear, and you thought this would be a good street package. I am pretty much heading for that at the moment, although the current setup feels ok I think the front could do with a little more stiffness, or maybe make the rear a little softer?? Any adjustment for the camber/caster?? I am thinking of winding another degree of caster in (to 5.0/5.5). Any thoughts?

[Sydneykid]

Hi jlnewton, 300 lbs is a bit light for the front spring rate, 350 lbs would be as low as I would go. The 225 lbs in the rear is OK though.

I always add as much caster as I can get, there is never enough. On a GTR be carefull of the drive shaft angles, the lower control arm inner bush distortion and the clearances of the lower control arm to the sub frame. They are normally the limiting factors in GTR caster. You can get up to 9 degrees on a GTST, but there are no drive shafts and the subframe is further forward so you don't get the other problems.

You will find that the stabiliser bars will make a huge difference. Plus they will add the usefull touch of tunability.

Let me know how it goes.

[Dion_180sx]

jlnewton where did u get it all done?

[jlnewton]

Got the coilovers rebuilt here http://www.shockreco.com.au/. They also advised and got the springs for me, which really aren't a good match.

Whiteline and Nengun supplied all the other stuff.

And LEDA suspension did all the work. They are located in Brendale, just north of Brisbane.

Thanks Sydneykid. Knowing what I want the car for, what would you suggest for a spring rate up front? 350lbs, 450lbs or somwhere in between. After driving the car some more today, I definately think it needs something heavier than 300lbs.

[Sydneykid]

Thanks Sydneykid.  Knowing what I want the car for, what would you suggest for a spring rate up front?  350lbs, 450lbs or somwhere in between.  After driving the car some more today, I definately think it needs something heavier than 300lbs.

There is no right or wrong, it is very much a personal feel thing. I would wait until you have the stabiliser bars and then see how it feels to you. How it drives on the roads you are familiar with. Then you can make an educated decision.

[jlnewton]

After much aggravation, I finally went and got some stiffer springs yesterday. I am now running 400lbs up front and 225lbs at the rear. The car its 100% better than it was before. So far I am very happy with the result. Thanks SK for the advise. And at $80 a spring its a hell of a lot cheaper to mess around with the spring rates than it is to swap complete sets of coilovers.

[Chef_32]

i'm on really tight budget, and i just bought a a pair of front apexi damper adjustable shocks and spring second hand. I'm currnetly running stock all round suspension cept for front strut brace and Adj. Castor rods.

i was recently given the impression that the front will look way too low compared with the back, then i realised that i had no idea how it would handle around a corner. i think i would expect to see a bit of oversteer, but i'm not sure. Any ideas???

i've found some lowered king springs for a 180sx going cheap. i'm not 100% sure that these will fit my r32. Are these a good option or should i be looking at whiteline springs instead?? Will these adversely affect the shocks, ie. are they going to deteriorate fast on the back??

my next aim is a rear strut brace... i'll be looking second hand so is there any other cars that share the same rear strut brace as the r32 gts-t.

As you can tell, i'm really struggling with cash. but i'm trying. Any help would be good.

thanks

[jlnewton]

They look to be the same type a APEXi coilover that I have, APEXi T-Max. They are height adjustable to a point, the rings around the strut casing with the C-ring in it allow you to reposition the spring seat to adjust the height, so height sould not be too much of a problem. Or you could buy some adjustable threaded spring seats, I had to replace the ones on the front of mine as you can tell by the pic. Since that pic I have also replaced the springs. Do you have the upper mount, spring hat thing? Can't see it in the pic. Not sure you could use the ones off the standard setup?? Its worth while getting the shocks checked aswell, mine looked to be in very good condition (still had the original bar code on them even) but still it was found the gas had leaked out which usually means the oil is not too far behind.

Also, I wouldn't get to excited about getting the rear strut brace, they don't really do a whole lot compared to the front, unless you are looking for the "look", alot of money for the "look" though. You would be better advised spending the money on getting the rear shocks and springs sorted or some adj. sway bars

[Chef_32]

nah, i didn't get the top hat thing for the springs. I was under the impression i could use the stock mounts. Any confirmation????

Yeah, i'll get them checked out tomorrow. kinda don't want to though. If they are screwed, will it cost much to rebuild?? would it be worth it???

And you're probably right about the read strut brace. i'll probably go the sway bars instead. just one at a time. Probably the back one first.

Any ideas about those springs???

[Chef_32]

thanks for the help by the way. I didn't know that bout the height adjustment

[Roy]

i'm on really tight budget, and i just bought a a pair of front apexi damper adjustable shocks and spring second hand. I'm currnetly running stock all round suspension cept for front strut brace and Adj. Castor rods.

i was recently given the impression that the front will look way too low compared with the back, then i realised that i had no idea how it would handle around a corner. i think i would expect to see a bit of oversteer, but i'm not sure. Any ideas???

i've found some lowered king springs for a 180sx going cheap. i'm not 100% sure that these will fit my r32. Are these a good option or should i be looking at whiteline springs instead?? Will these adversely affect the shocks, ie. are they going to deteriorate fast on the back??

my next aim is a rear strut brace... i'll be looking second hand so is there any other cars that share the same rear strut brace as the r32 gts-t.

As you can tell, i'm really struggling with cash. but i'm trying. Any help would be good.

thanks

I wouldnt worry too much about the rear strut brace, id be getting a front swaybar before then. As for springs i have a brand new set of Whiteline springs for sale... $130 and they are yours. (Im in Melb)

If the shocks are for an R32, and are only rebound adjustable, (ie not height adjustable), then the spring will dictate the ride height, so with something like Whitleine of Kings Lowered springs you will likely have a front ride height around 345mm....so sont look out of place with std ride height rear

If you take the shocks to a suspension place, they will soon be able to tell you if the shocks are in ok condition, and test the spring rate to see if they are suitable...you may find that you dont need springs as you got a good buy.

Depending on how you drive, i dont think you will find too may dramas with aftermarket susp up front, with the std gear out back.

A friend did it in his old 200SX for about 2 years and it drove fine (King/Koni combo) But again if you are flying thru turns and jumping off the gas, or on the gas, you may find that ultimately it lacks the susp control and balance of a fully sorted susp package.

But for nice sharp turn in and feel on the street, i dont see any major problem with only upgrading the front.

[Chef_32]

alright, so i'll rule out the rear brace.

i'll definately get the setup checked tomorrow. Wheres a good place to get them checked. Will it cost me much??? If there is a prob i'll think about the springs, thanks for the offer.

[Roy]

As for just testing spring rate, and inspecting the shocks stroke / leaks etc, most susp places can do it for you... just have your BS meter handy when they try to sell you parts.

If you are buying parts, installing, setting up the car / alignment etc then id be alittl emore concerned about who does the work.

[Chef_32]

alright. i'm installing myself, with a little help. i really don't have cash to get conned into getting other stuff, so they can't milk me for much

i really need to know if these rear spring for a 180 will fit on my r32. They are on ebay with 3 hrs to go. help please

[Sydneykid]

alright, so i'll rule out the rear brace.

i'll definately get the setup checked tomorrow. Wheres a good place to get them checked. Will it cost me much??? If there is a prob i'll think about the springs, thanks for the offer.

In Melbourne, Centreline Suspension or Traction Tyres

[Roy]

Centreline im stoked with how my car now drives, handles again ...and my car was a bit of problem child when it went in there, came out the goods though

As for the springs, Im no expert but looking at part numbers for Whiteline kits they are different part numbers, and different spring heights.

That said that doesnt really mean that they wont fit, just that Whiteline dont spec the same spring for both cars.

I havent heard any stories that they are the same... i think you will find that castor rods etc are compatible but not the shocks/springs

[Chef_32]

traction tyres is near by, i'll try them in the morning.

any help with the rear 180 springs on an r32???