One Breath Away From Totally Losing It :(

[KrazyKong]

It's hard to describe a feeling of being totally helpless. Despite my best efforts I continue to get screwed by mechanics, panel beaters, painters, whoever wants to make a buck.

A month or so ago I backed into a building and pushed in the right rear. After going to several places to get quotes, and all the while mentioning I was after a job that would help restore the car back to the way it was, and thus not be so obvious it had been repainted in the right rear, I settled on a business. We'll call this business CC. So I dropped it off and waited 3 days before going to pick it up. First observations was that it was a nice job. Other than the bumper not quite matting up to the body, it seemed ok. But after a minute or so I noticed a blotch right in the middle of the paint job. Turns out CC had decided even though we had spoken about it and agreed not to fix it, that he'd fill in a tiny dent with some putty filler stuff. This ended up bubbling up under the clear coat. I brought this up and he agreed to redo this section of the car, but said I should wait a couple of weeks for this filler to stuff to harden properly. Come the two weeks I bring the car back in and wait another 4 days. I go to pick it up last night and CC seemed a tad evasive about how things had gone for the redo. Even mentioning this car was giving him problems and he didn't want to see it again. I noticed it didn't look as nice and sparkly as the first time I picked it up, but chaukled this up to him maybe not having time to give it a nice buff. I thanked him, even gave him some Christmas chocolates and asked if I could finally have a receipt. It was beer o'clock at that point so he said come back Wednesday for the receipt.

Now today I saw the car in proper light and noticed a few things. My first feeling was one of being gutted. The colour of the area he's worked on does not match the door and rest of the car anymore. And because he's had to redo an area that wasn't supposed to have been touched, I don't think he's blended it properly. His first attempt looked ok and the blending and colour match were good. Apart from the swiss cheese bubbles in the clear coat it was a pass despite there being some grit in the paint. But it looks now as though he's had a few goes at fixing this area, even so much as masking off the car in the middle of the side and trying to cheat a line instead of painting all the way to the edge. The whole area is now blotchy and reflects light in weird ways that make you notice something isn't quite right. It doesn't even feel smooth when you run your hands over it. You can see all these pieces of grit in the paint too. Plus paint is now on the rear window seals whereas the first time it was done nicely with no overspray or marks on the seals. There is too much paint and you can see where it drooped or ran in areas.

I head back there tomorrow with this gut renching feeling he's going to tell me to F off. I had thought I had asked all the right questions and done all the homework to find a person who would stand behind their work. CC said more than once that they guaranteed their work for life, just like insurance companies do. Now I know I paid him before the final job was complete, but I at that time felt he was an ok guy and would in the end do a nice job. So please don't all get on my case for trusting this guy and paying him at that point, I already feel like crap as it is.

All up to fix my bumper and part of the body that got pushed in, has cost me $600. Now I look at the car and the dream has pretty much died. It's either time to sell the car, or I don't know what the next move is. A whole respray of the car perhaps, but then I don't have the money for that, am also worried all the original window seals and things will get wrecked and that I'll end up with an even more crap looking car that it is now.

Who here knows of an honest, reputable and all around good guy auto spray painter on the Gold Coast or maybe in Brisbane? I'm more than willing to pay this person for their time to give me advice on what I should do. I'm massively worried now over this car. I think it's had 3-4 coats of paint plus various putty and stuff thrown in. It's just made it all worse. I've already taken it to another business I had been to previously when I was getting the original quotes, and they mentioned since I had had the work done elsewhere, on principal they wouldn't touch it. Even if I wanted to do business with them, I got the big no thanks basically.

I'm desparate and honestly about to lose it at this point. This car was my pride and joy, but the joy is now on life support. The very situation I feared would happen, of one where I'd do all the homework trying to find someone I could trust to do a nice job, while pushing aside my distrust of mechanics and the situations in the past where I've been taken for a ride, is now playing out before my eyes.

Help. I really mean it I kindly need some help.

[Hanaldo]

Not your fault for trusting the guy, it just goes to show what Australian businesses are like that you have to question your trust in them.

That said, don't stress out mate. I know how frustrating and devastating it is, I've been in similar positions where I've come close to selling. But paint is something that can be fixed. Don't worry about the layers of paint or any filler he has used, that's easily removed so it can be done again. I think that you should go back in there and tell him you're very unhappy with the job. If he doesn't agree to fix it, and properly this time, for no extra charge, then tell him you'll be reporting him to the ACCC.

Can you put some pictures up of the job??

Edited December 20, 2011 by Hanaldo

[75coupe]

yep that sucks and your not unique in your troubles of finding decent businesses to do work on your car.

I needed a brand new fibreglass bonnet painted, it took me three goes of attempting to pick it up, each time finding obvious problems, first was runs in the paint, second was a thumb print right in the middle at the front and third was they then sanded right back to the undercoat and didnt notice, eventually they got it ok. but the thought of walking in there and having to tell them there was still a problem was aweful, especially because they started treating me like I was a problem customer, when all I wanted was for the paint to be done professionally.

Another time different painter, getting rims painted, it took me another three times to attempt to pick them up, each time the guys getting more and more annoyed with me for picking up obvious problems...

and yet another time, and again different painter, a different set of rims, the painter thought it was ok to have a matt sandpaper finish, ummm no I did actually want a gloss finish... another two times to drive all the way out to his workshop to have him and his biker mates glare angrily at me as though I was again being utterly pedantic, no I just wanted glossy finish which I thought was a fairly obvious thing to ask for...

So no, your not alone, and I have yet another painter Im going to try, this time my front bar, Ive seen his work, he seems nice, please just let this one be decent...

Yours can be fixed, dont loose hope, you just need to find the right guy, then never loose his number and dont date his daughter...

[Joe_89]

As all the above show, paint is a bit of an art and its easy to screw up.

Not many people can do it and just because its their "profession" doesnt mean they are one of those few people.

I think its just one of those things where you get what you pay for, and if you want it perfect then you have to pay top dollar at a reputable garage.

I recently crashed my car so i am going to need some painting done at some point, This has made me think I will go here prehaps: http://www.facebook.com/pages/ICANDY-CUSTOM-RESPRAYS/324860231897

These guys do mostly show cars, I doubt they would even tell you it was finished without going over it with a magnifying glass prior

[Spunky Munky]

Hi mate,

I know how you feel. You wrote a whole essay on it so it just goes to show that you are, like you said, very gutted. It's not your fault, unfortunately there are 3 reasons why your car was given a bad paint job; 1) you seem to be a very nice and trusting kinda guy - unfortunately, nice guys get taken on rides as he might have thought that he could do a crap job on your car and get away with it, 2) unfortunately you had a car accident which occurred towards the end of the year - most businesses will either delay or rush their jobs so get all their work out of the way so this might be a reason why he's done a poor job, 3) you should have specifically told him exactly what you wanted and agreed on a rice at the very start for exactly what he's going to do; it sounds to me you went in with an open mind and had fully trusted him.

What I suggest you do is call the QLD office of Fair Trading. Their contact details can be obtained from here: http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au and ask for some advice, then with that knowledge, I would then go back to the panel beater and say; "look mate, it is clear that the finished work is not of the standard you had guanrateed and I had expected. I know it's getting close to Christmas and everything so things are hectic for you, but I'd appreciate it if you can please fix it up. I am happy to wait a few more weeks towards the new yer." Be polite but firm. He owes you a duty of care and his reputation is based on his work so most likely he will agree to getting it fixed and by showing some sympathy towards him plus giving him enough time to fix this up - I am confident you will get a good response.

However, if he does not comply. Tell him that you are very disappointed and dissatisfied with his work. Tell him that you have spoken to Consumer Affairs and that you understand he owes you a duty of care and the contract you entered into (meaning payment for a service performed) is based on a 'promise' that the work is of satisfactory standards - which is clearly not the case. Finally, tell him that you trust he will do what is right given the fact that you are willing to wait a few weeks - I think he'll soon realise for a few hundred dollars it's nor worth stuffing you around plus you are showing him understanding and have given him ample time to fix up this mess.

Whatever you do...DO NOT threaten him, or ask him whether he can fix your car up - threats go nowhere - doesn't cost to be nice given that you are now holding the short straw; but being soft about this will also get you no where as you need to be firm knowing he owes you a duty of service.

Good luck - PM me if you need further advice as I have lawyers amongst my friends which I can get free advice for you if this is required.

Cheers

SM

[GTR-N1]

I agree with above posts that offer great advice.

I empathise with you.

Painters need a lot of expertise to be great.

Some - well, they'll never get the hang of it.

And your one? Sounds like he uses dope after consuming gifts of chocolate.

[Hanaldo]

Painting really isn't that hard, it just takes patience and care. Sure it's easy to mess up, but if you're careful then you won't. I managed to respray my car on my first attempt and it looks better than the factory paint did. For someone who does it day-in-day out, the care needed should be habitual. I just don't understand why so many Australian businesses don't take any pride in their work. So many people are happy to let customers leave with poor quality jobs. I'd be embarrassed.

[KrazyKong]

Hanaldo, I'll take some pictures of the job today for you. I have pictures of the original damage as well, but didn't think to take pictures after the first repair job. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me in anyway.

Spunky Munky, thanks for your advice. I have been telling myself over and over before reading your comments not to get angry or make threats. I just hope it stays that way, as if he does tell me to F off, emotions are going to be overflowing at that point. Now you mention Christmas time and me being in a position where I can offer to wait a few weeks before it's fixed. The problem here is I have already been in that frame of mind from the get go. When I would take it in, I would insist they keep it an extra day, to try and give him the space so that he could do a nicer job at the end of the day. But what I suspect is happening is, regardless of if I wait a week, a month etc., when I take it in, even if I then leave it with him for X amount of time, he doesn't get to it until the day before. Then he encounters problems which are solely his own doing, and then gets the shits because he's run out of time. Any honest person would ring the client and say hey, we've having a few problems here, we need your car another day etc. Not this guy. Both times I've been in, it looks like he's literally finished coating, and buffing the thing 15mins before I rock up. So me giving him more time I don't think is going to change anything. It seems clear this guy either has too much work, or isn't using his time properly.

I called the Office of Fair Trading today and they didn't really give me any advice other than reading out what my entitlements are. It's hard to remember all those things, so I have them bookmarked and hope I can remember a few things.

I'm thinking more now that I want a refund. And according the Office of Fair Trading I am entitled to one if he didn't provide the level of work he assure me he would. Key sticking point is he hasn't given me a receipt. And no receipt means all I can do is then make a complaint.

I'm about to go into the shop in 15mins or so, so I'll post an update after that. But my trust in this guy has pretty much gone, so even if he agreed to fix it yet again, chances are it'll come back even worse. And key issue here, is that instead of another painter repainting a small section, I'm now looking at the entire side of the car that needs to be sanded back, repainted. Add to that the window seals keep getting paint on them as well, plus other small marks and damage. They couldn't even take out my brake lights without scratching one. I have a ton of things I could be complaining about here with their work, but I pushed them aside and told myself ok, I'll just have to accept those small things and see if I can fix the marks/scratches/paint on seals etc. Add it all up and the experience has been horrible. If I could wind the clock back, I'd love to. Hopefully in same way I can with the end result.

[Marcus89]

Maybe before trying to get a refund ect. get the receipt off him first so you have written proof that the work was done from him? No idea how it would end up if you didn't have receipt for the work and needed to take it further.

[75coupe]

no receipt also means he's doing a cash in hand job, no tax to paid by him...

let me guess he usually does insurance repair work right???

I reckon he wont be impressed if you ask for a receipt or he'll throw his end away cause he knows you arnt going to claim it on tax....

get a receipt for sure, first thing before anything else...

[KrazyKong]

Pretty much all mechanics and workshop places I've been too apart from the name brand stores like TyrePower are asking for cash on the Coast. I already got screwed over on my muffler disaster 3 times over and they were all cash jobs so I know the drill by now, but still I felt this guy was trustworthy.

For sure this guy is not paying tax on the job he did. But he knows I need a receipt as I was using my car for work purposes the day I damaged it. Thus I will be claiming a portion of that back when I do my taxes next year.

But good call. I'll play it cool and get a receipt from him first, then see how it goes. Just had a chat with my neighbour who reckons I should just leave the car as is and not let CC touch it. Chances are he will f it up even more, and by then the only way to undo it all is to pretty much get the car stripped and repainted. And that is big dollars. Forget about the $600 I paid for this job, it's now turning into a $6000 fix it exercise. Heck I don't even know what a full repaint job would cost, but $6000 is prob on the super cheap end with my luck. Which means my only option is sell it as I can't look at it right now and feel anything other than disgust and guilt. I feel guilty for not going to see more places and getting quotes. I got 5 total in the beginning and had my fingers crossed I'd picked the right guy.

Seeing the car more today, there's patches where it looks like orange peel, even more grit and specs in the paint. The bumper doesn't really line up properly. I tried taking some pictures but you just can't see how bad it is without seeing it in person. And depending on what light you are in, it either looks so so, or terrible.

If I don't end up getting a receipt, I will sign an affidavit if need be. My family have picked me up and dropped me off there to pickup the car, so they will do the same as well. I don't think it's going to be too hard for me to show he did the job for me even without a receipt as I have witnesses, a handwritten quote on his business card, and bank account details to show I withdrew the correct amount of money.

Anyway, off to see this guy now. Wish me luck.

[Joe_89]

Were the quotes you got all a similar price?

Im still unclear about just how much you have had painted, but $600 seems very cheap to me

[75coupe]

post some photos...

[KrazyKong]

Were the quotes you got all a similar price?

Im still unclear about just how much you have had painted, but $600 seems very cheap to me

They varied from $400 up to $875. The one I ended up going with was $600 including a full buff of the rest of the car to help make it match the repaired section. Actually it was $500 plus $100 for a full buff. Add another $60 to have a small dent rolled (this is the cause of all the dramas), and the total came out to $660.

The day I went to drop off the car the first time, I was told the dent roller/fixer guy was away down south and wouldn't have time. So I then said ok, don't worry about it. I can live with that small dent and maybe another time I can get it rolled. But, and this is important, the guy decided anyway to try and fix it with putty without my consent or knowledge -- hence the start of all this drama. He clearly didn't wait or give it enough time to set before painting. It bubbled under the paint and clear coat was very noticeable. The colour was off, heck it looked like a water stain on a piece of paper, it was off colour and looked terrible. I didn't take a picture of this bubble at this point though. Now I wish I had.

post some photos...

Here are the before pictures. You can see the dmg to the back right corner. I so wished it was only confined to the bumper, but you can see the part on the body that got pushed in. This should have been a simple job. Fix the bumper, fix the body, then paint, blend, clear and voila. But as you now all know it's turned into a nightmare.

UPDATE: So after reading the nice comments of support and what I should do about this, I went down to see CC today. I got a receipt which is a good thing, but it's handwritten. Whether he keeps his copy is another issue for the taxman. I then mentioned I had a couple of questions while telling him I was appreciative of his time as I knew he was busy during Christmas. Figured I'd follow Spunky Munky's tip on that point .

I then showed him the places in the repair area that I wasn't happy about. I mentioned I was pretty much gutted about the whole thing and found it difficult to address these as I didn't want to be known as a complainer or problem customer. After I asked if he'd painted all the way to the door, he said no, he's been in the business too long to be doing things like that. So I asked why the colours didn't match. His answer, maybe it was the clear that was making it not match. He then offers up this tidbit, that he had painted my car 4 times over. 4 times. I had suspected as much and figured that was part of the reason why it was looking so shit. So each time he's touched the car, he's had to redo it a second time. I then asked if he'd taped off to the ridge instead of painting to the edge and blending etc., as I was seeing this really bad edge. He said no, but that the clear probably dripped down there. I don't believe he's being honest with me on that point, but moving on. He then says he can just buff it all out, as though buffing is the magic be all and end all of fixing things. No matter that I counted over 20 specs of dust, grit and crap in the paint, apparently buffing is going to fix it all.

It ended up with him telling me to bring it back in January and he'd buff it all out. Hopefully this will correct a few issues, with another one of them being where you can see the drips of clear in various places too. But I'm not buying this is all down to the clear being iffy, and not smooth. As the silver metallic paint looks like orange peels in places. That's over paint issues. The specs and grit in the paint is in the paint, so buff it ain't going to get it out.

I'll post some pics of the car I took today later this evening as I have to head out now. Still on a major downer about this all

[Hanaldo]

They varied from $400 up to $875. The one I ended up going with was $600 including a full buff of the rest of the car to help make it match the repaired section. Actually it was $500 plus $100 for a full buff. Add another $60 to have a small dent rolled (this is the cause of all the dramas), and the total came out to $660.

The day I went to drop off the car the first time, I was told the dent roller/fixer guy was away down south and wouldn't have time. So I then said ok, don't worry about it. I can live with that small dent and maybe another time I can get it rolled. But, and this is important, the guy decided anyway to try and fix it with putty without my consent or knowledge -- hence the start of all this drama. He clearly didn't wait or give it enough time to set before painting. It bubbled under the paint and clear coat was very noticeable. The colour was off, heck it looked like a water stain on a piece of paper, it was off colour and looked terrible. I didn't take a picture of this bubble at this point though. Now I wish I had.

Here are the before pictures. You can see the dmg to the back right corner. I so wished it was only confined to the bumper, but you can see the part on the body that got pushed in. This should have been a simple job. Fix the bumper, fix the body, then paint, blend, clear and voila. But as you now all know it's turned into a nightmare.

UPDATE: So after reading the nice comments of support and what I should do about this, I went down to see CC today. I got a receipt which is a good thing, but it's handwritten. Whether he keeps his copy is another issue for the taxman. I then mentioned I had a couple of questions while telling him I was appreciative of his time as I knew he was busy during Christmas. Figured I'd follow Spunky Munky's tip on that point .

I then showed him the places in the repair area that I wasn't happy about. I mentioned I was pretty much gutted about the whole thing and found it difficult to address these as I didn't want to be known as a complainer or problem customer. After I asked if he'd painted all the way to the door, he said no, he's been in the business too long to be doing things like that. So I asked why the colours didn't match. His answer, maybe it was the clear that was making it not match. He then offers up this tidbit, that he had painted my car 4 times over. 4 times. I had suspected as much and figured that was part of the reason why it was looking so shit. So each time he's touched the car, he's had to redo it a second time. I then asked if he'd taped off to the ridge instead of painting to the edge and blending etc., as I was seeing this really bad edge. He said no, but that the clear probably dripped down there. I don't believe he's being honest with me on that point, but moving on. He then says he can just buff it all out, as though buffing is the magic be all and end all of fixing things. No matter that I counted over 20 specs of dust, grit and crap in the paint, apparently buffing is going to fix it all.

It ended up with him telling me to bring it back in January and he'd buff it all out. Hopefully this will correct a few issues, with another one of them being where you can see the drips of clear in various places too. But I'm not buying this is all down to the clear being iffy, and not smooth. As the silver metallic paint looks like orange peels in places. That's over paint issues. The specs and grit in the paint is in the paint, so buff it ain't going to get it out.

I'll post some pics of the car I took today later this evening as I have to head out now. Still on a major downer about this all

Well actually it is amazing what a good buff will do. I thought my paint job looked shit and gritty until I buffed it, now it shiiiiiiiiiiiines Is the grit you are seeing in the paint actually dirt, or is it grit from the painter not thinning the paint down enough?

If he hasn't buffed it then that may be the extent of your problems mate. Though if he wants you to bring it back in January, he is gonna have his work cut out for him to buff it off as the paint will have gone quite hard by then. And if it is the base coat that is contaminated then he would have to buff through the clear to get to it. Post some photo's of it mate, may be able to understand the quality of the job better.

[75coupe]

ummm there's no actual price on the receipt... thats not really a receipt if there is no price...

[Spunky Munky]

Hey mate, sorry to hear of your ongoing issues with this dickhead...

Here's the next step; go to see him and then go to the police station and get a police officer to witness for you a statement. Then, go back to the panel shop and say that you have spoken to Consumer Affairs and have also noted down the events leading to the need for the intervention of the authorities. He should comply.

Let me know if you require any other help - BUT remember, do not give in...get the car fixed!!!

[AAARGH 33]

I definitely agree with Hanaldo with a good buff bringing the paint up.Although,as you said,it won't get rid of the pieces of grit thats been sealed with the clear.

I recently had a respray on a major panel of my car.During the spraying process,I was extremely worried as the finish wasn't coming up clear and glossy,rather it was a matte finish.After everything was nice and cured,I gave the resprayed panel a thorough buff and polish,you couldn't tell it had been resprayed from a distance as it was nice and glossy.So to a certain extent a good buff is capable of fixing imperfections.

Get some pics up of the car as it sits now,just to see how bad the job is and if it seems easy enough to fix.

[GTR-N1]

If the buffing doesn't improve the end result by over 98%, ask him on pickup to complete the receipt to acceptable ATO standard with full price, letterhead etc.

Also take along a well dressed friend in pin stripes to take Pics of your car, its crummy paint job and the workshop's signage. As he/she is standing kerbside, point out to the owner that person as a 'clerk from a law firm' and that he'll hear from them if he doesn't give you a refund.

Let's call this 'sabre rattling' if required.

'Sabre Rattling' has worked before.

[Hanaldo]

I definitely agree with Hanaldo with a good buff bringing the paint up.Although,as you said,it won't get rid of the pieces of grit thats been sealed with the clear.

I recently had a respray on a major panel of my car.During the spraying process,I was extremely worried as the finish wasn't coming up clear and glossy,rather it was a matte finish.After everything was nice and cured,I gave the resprayed panel a thorough buff and polish,you couldn't tell it had been resprayed from a distance as it was nice and glossy.So to a certain extent a good buff is capable of fixing imperfections.

Get some pics up of the car as it sits now,just to see how bad the job is and if it seems easy enough to fix.

Was the weather or panel being sprayed cold? Often happens when the paint gets cold, it comes up as a matte finish. Had a similar problem with my car when I sprayed it, luckily it can buff up to a nice shine