Help Saru Build Sally The 4-Door

[Sarumatix]

I created this thread as a sort of build thread but i'm also looking for some advice from all your 4-door pro's (Simon?) as I work through this . This car was always intended to be a project car hence no RB20det replacement and I already have 2 other working 32 4-doors.

So I have a spare R32 gts-t 4-door auto which I picked up cheap, it has a very blown headgasket but is otherwise in good condition.

Instead I sourced a VERY cheap RB25de from an R34 gts, a VERY VERY cheap R33 S2 manual gearbox both have been tested in car before being removed so i'm confident they are good.

My current plan is to swap turbo bits on RB25 with a RB25det turbo or if I can get the money a gt2860rs and run 7psi and manual convert.

I have a very long time frame to get this done.

I'm wondering about the R33 manual conversion mounts that I will need to get the thing in (auto 4-door gts-t)?

I am wondering if a manual 4-door gts4 tailshaft (could be fun to find ) will get me to the right length with a 25 manual gearbox?

Candy Time.

The day Saru met Sally.

Bonnet off and the first steps to getting the engine out.

Sally's new home for a while.

The three Amigo's

[toffy]

If the gearbox is a r33 non turbo box , it will be the same as a rb20det gearbox , so you will only need a rb20de or det tail shaft . A good mate of mine has a r31/vl rb30 gearbox (probably weaker than rb20det/rb25de gearbox) pushing over 260rwk without failure . the rb25de neo engine should have no trouble holding 250rwk reliably if tuned well and the higher compression means you will have a nice responsive package at that level of power . Go into the forced induction forum and read the hypergear and kando turbo threads , these are the best budget turbo's around atm that will net you that power easily if you buy the correct one . what do you want the car to do? (what is it for , track , street , drift etc) i can give you some pretty detailed information on good setups for each that may save you some $$ in trial and error

[Sarumatix]

The Gearbox is off a series 2 R33 gts-t so it's the big one. I believe I need an S13 SR20 crossmember, no idea what the go is on a tailshaft.

I'm tending towards a new garret items after a few bad experiences but I guess I really just want something that will bolt up without too much fuss for the time being. A stock RB25det turbo seems like a good starting point.

For the engine the long term goal is E85 so 250 is sort of the where I am aiming for but for the build up I was just going to get it running.

Really building this car for the fun of it and experience (first time doing it myself) although I wanted something that would be a lot of fun to take to DECA and track days (rwd).

[Sarumatix]

Clocked on today with the goal of getting the engine and gearbox out. Started well with a few minor hiccups (first time i've pulled an engine out myself ).

Quite a few expletives later and this was the result:

Now I just have this:

To go in that:

Written up a nice long to do list and started trying to get some parts together that I haven't bothered to find like master cylinders, pedals, an ECU that can handle Ethanol sensors and VCT, VL/R31 engine mounts (I think) and a turbo . I've found a place that resizes tail shafts so that sounds like a goer. Might need to get the cousin around + slab of beer and fabricate a crossmember at this rate.

[CeJay]

You can source a new gts4 tailshaft from nissan japan, but of course it is around 1200$, after a lot of BS that I went through, I had my one piece replaced with the standard gts4 two piece.

[Dan_J]

gts4 shaft wont fit gtst, custom 2 piece shaft is about 500 bux i hear the guys next to total tools keysborough are good

[Sarumatix]

gts-t + RB25 gearbox (Which is the same length as gtr gearbox) surely should equal gts4 + gts4 gearbox (which is the same length as gtr gearbox) therefore the tailshaft from a gts4 should be the same length as a gts-t + rb25 gearbox?

Otherwise I shouldn't need to get a whole tailshaft made up, just shorten a 2-door tailshaft to suit?

[toffy]

yeah , just shorten a gts/-t tail shaft , in memory you cut 10mm out of gts-t tail shaft when welding the r33 gearbox yoke , your auto crossmember fits in memory (same as the r33 one fits straight up , no mods) . i did have a 25det box in my yellow 4d . Note : get a vacuum bleeder to bleed the clutch if using r33 lines , the extra loop piece is a c*#t to bleed properly without one .

[Sarumatix]

I was thinking of just getting lines made up tbh.

So the auto crossmember does mount up with a 25 gearbox? that would be nice! The gearbox came with crossmember too so I have a 33 gts-t one. I think I have an S13 auto CA one floating around too.

[Sarumatix]

Sourced complete manual conversion parts from a 32 gtr now, getting sick of the waiting though .

Decided to go an external gate setup using the kando budget specials, could be a disaster but hopefully will learn something along the way.

[toffy]

Which kando did you end up buying?

[Sarumatix]

still umming and ahhing . TD06 (something) - 2 (something) with 10cm housing. lol

[SABBAi]

That'll be the TD06-25G L2. That's not your parents place, is it?

[RBC33]

Let me know how much power you make on it, I'd be I retested in upgrading my td05 one day cause I'll get power hungry.

How much power are you hoping for?

[Sarumatix]

Hoping for an easy 250rwkw with the potential to hit 300rwkw depending how the engine goes .

Photos are from my Inlaws place.

I think Kinugawa call that turbo the TD06SL2-25g I think.

It was that: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kinugawa-Turbocharger-4-Inlet-TD06H-25G-T3-4-bolt-10cm-AR-73-500P-/270913941592?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f13bab058#ht_2314wt_1399

Or this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kinugawa-Turbocharger-3-Anti-Surge-TD06SL2-25G-10cm-T3-Oil-Cooled-V-Band-/280825908454?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4162874ce6#ht_2425wt_1399

[toffy]

20g not 25g mate

[Sarumatix]

http://hardtuned.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=362874

Is the best diagram I have yet found on these turbos.. although it could be totally wrong.

If i'm aiming for 250rwkw with the potential to hit 300, surely the 25G is the better option?

Or the 20G if I go for a TD06H?

Sorry to be a pain in the balls, there are just way too many options with stuff and i'm a total noob .

[toffy]

Have a look in the forced performance thread at the rb25 dyno results , a guy named talky has the same setup , made 245rwk with a l2 on standard injectors . Personally i'd go a t67 20g if you definitely want 300rwk , but remember it's just a number at the end of the day , a good responsive 250~280+rwk in a light r32 will make you more than happy . Not saying the td06 won't make 300 , but it would be right on it's limit , e85 would get you there

[Sarumatix]

ok, after a small interlude of a couple of years , I am pleased to see this project is back on track after (quite) a few hurdles and a lot of help from Ace Workshop and sau member Femno.

Last post I was looking for how to setup the DE as a +T on E85. I eventually settled on a beautiful genuine trust kit that I bought off a member that had a T67-8cm rear 0 shaftplay, Trust stainless manifold, 48mm external gate. I also found an 040 and surge tank, got some ID1000 injectors and a Haltech 2000 which is supposed to have very nice tuning capability particularly for E85. I then got started on the engine. The first hurdle we found was that a high mount turbo + NA intake design = no chance in hell without modification. You can't use a turbo intake manifold because, unlike all other RB25s, the DE NEO has a smaller intake runner diameter. I should have stuck with a low mount kit, but, i'm nothing if not stubborn so I forged on in the hope that a solution presented itself.

Next up, the DE heads have horrible exhaust cams in them:

RB25DE NEO Camshaft duration 236°in, 232°ex lift: 8.4mm in, 6.9mm ex

RB25DET NEO Camshaft duration 236°in, 232°ex lift: 8.4mm in, 8.7mm ex

6.9mm lift seemed like a bad idea, however the exhaust cam doesn't have variable timing so any cam from a solid lifter RB engine will work. I found an RB26dett cam and it slotted straight in, just be aware you will need to use the appropriate CAS for the cam and you should check the valve clearances again. I am fairly sure the valve springs are the same part number for neos. At this point, disaster, I snapped a bolt in the head whilst tightening the cam sleeves. Sadly (and I know my father in law meant well), whilst trying to get the bolt out with an easy-out, a large piece of the head was also liberated. Upon a few peoples advice, that head is now in the bin . To stay low cost, the right thing to do was probably to ditch the whole motor and find another cheap RB25, sadly, I'm stubborn. I bought an RB25det NEO head cheap with a few bits missing and bolted that on top of my DE bottom end. Please note: this is not cheap if you are paying to do it and not without risk, it is a much better idea to leave the stock head on and stay low mount. The advantage to an RB25det neo head on an RB25de neo bottom end is that the compression is left as is but the turbo intake manifold is conveniently short and going a high mount is much simpler proposition, the solution had presented itself .

It was then time to put the motor back together, disaster, when I went to find the turbo it had been stolen! I now had a trust kit with no trust turbo . The obvious solution was a kinugawa copy, however they only make trust flanges on the 8cm and 12 cm rear housings. 10cm exhaust housings are not easy to find (right Roy ). Both of those housings weren't perfect for a high compression, E85 chomping RB25, so, I sourced a new TD06SH-10cm from yahoo.jp. Landed on my front door for 1700AUD which I was pretty happy with - http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r111569268. After a quick paint job on the rocker covers (see if anyone can guess the color), the results was:

SEXC. Next up is the manual conversion.

Disaster, the clutch and flywheel that I had saved up for this project was also stolen in the great heist . In the meantime, whilst trying to find a bug that resulted in huge power drops whilst driving, my purple GTS4s rear turbo died resulting in lost compression . At about this time, I was ready to give up on skylines in general, freaken money pits. Strangely or perhaps thankfully, my wife talked me out of it (she also drives an R32 4-door) commenting that her family have all sold their first pride and joys and have regretted it ever since and that I really didn't have to go down that path. Given that this car has an almost new Nismo twin plate clutch in the same config as the RB25 gearbox I had for Sally, this was the perfect time to pull the 26 out.

Given that I had to get Sally to the workshop anyway, I rented a car trailer and spent the day moving R32 4-doors around Victoria. Although I had already cleaned the car down, someone felt that I didn't do a very good job. A bit of workshop degreaser and a high pressure gun and the car was almost sparkling again. Except for strange rust spots all over the body, that, upon closer inspection were actually little bits of overspray that had bound up with the dust. This, along with numerous bumps and scratches, is the cost of leaving a project car in the father in laws garage for an undefined period of time since 2010.

With the dust gone and the clutch and clutch assembly successfully pilfered out of the gts4, the pedals could go in. This is an unpleasant job involving being upside down with enough space for one arm to work at a time. This means you can't hold the pedal in place and do up the nut. Getting some help here to have someone wiggle the master cylinder from the engine bay helps. It is also a good idea to take the switches off the pedals first to help get the pedals in much faster. If you are changing the brake pedal as well (which you need to change if you want the pedals to clear without using an angle grinder ) make sure you put the bolt that goes up into the dash first, then do up the nuts on the studs from the master cylinder otherwise it is close to impossible to hold the pedal in position and do that bolt up and you will have to take it all out again . The outcome should look like this:

From here I need to lock and cap the HICAS system (junk IMHO), mount the front mount intercooler and oilcooler, replace the diaphragm in the waste gate which has a nice little hole in it, buy an R33 tailshaft (r32 tailshaft yoke is wrong for a 33 gearbox) and get it cut to size, get the gearbox in, then engine, then a whole lot of wiring and plumbing, then ancillaries, get an R33 throttle body (34 det one is too long, has stupid traction control on it), prolly some more plumbing and wiring, mount the 040 and surge tank and then... deep breath, I might be getting close to the first start .

I really hope my next update comes a little sooner than the previous few.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Sarumatix

[Sarumatix]

Just a little update, a lot of progress happening .

Gearbox is just about to go in.