E85/eflex And Oil Choice

[Piggaz]

The guys on Supraforums would know you would think. Some of those guys have been running E85 for years.

[nisskid]

Next time you go to buy Oil look at the API Spec, look for one that is API SN!

API SN is amongst other things its designed for use with E85, more and more new cars are now being designed to run on E85. The new Commodore can run on low octane unleaded or even E85, the compute automaticaly changes the map to suit.

So the oil companies now product an oil designed for E85, that is API SN. I think its the first time a API spec has hadto meet the test procedures for E85.

At United Oil (not united Fuel) we have many API SN products, but like all the other oil companies they will be a Hydrocrack (group 3) base synthetics.

I am suprised the oil companies who have responded to the question on E85 fuels have failed to mention API SN spec, its the most critical factor! Or maybe they arn't API Accreditied?

Info in API SN

List of all the API Petrol engine specs

Ash

the only thing is just because a oil doesn't meet SN standards doesn't mean it can't be used with E85, some of the other criteria's which it might not meet are absolutely no concern to me, however it does raise concerns.

penrite 10 tenths racing meets API SN, the motul is SL, it would be interesting to find out exactly why, that might be in my next email to motul.

[nisskid]

that would seem to be a yes...

now to find a list of G5-F oils...

looks like GF-5 might be better than API SN in some regards, as there will be API SN and SN Resource Conserving, SN normal doesn't seem to require emulsion retention... interesting...

I think i'm going to try and find a GF-5 oil to try.

royal purple means API SN and G5-F.

Royal Purple's API SN licensed motor oil meets ILSAC GF-5 and Dexos1™1 performance requirements.

i think i'm going to try RP first, as the penrite 10 tenths range hasn't hit supercheapauto stores yet, and they don't carry motul at all, for the price i will pay for the RP with discount, it's not gonna be much more than the penrite or motul from autobarn.

[SS8_Gohan]

yeah, i used RP in my GTT on E85, no dramas at all.

[Rolls]

Yes I do.

The best thing to do is to take regular samples to establish a trend. Regular samples showed contamination caused by the E85. Once I Also found high metal contamination, which they sugested it looked like cam wear. I then inspected the cams and one of the lubricating holes was blocked with some silicon. So sampling is a good thing, helps find potential falures

Ash

You should post this in the oil thread, guys seem to think how their car "feels" when they drive it is a better metric than oil analysis when comparing oils.

[boxheadmr]

Mobil 1 meets it as well

[SS8_Gohan]

as does the AMSoil Signature Series - unfortunately nothing in the thicker scale of things...

apparently the additive package between Mobil 1 and AMSoil is quite different, so you'd prob want to see some real world results between those two particular ones.

- AMSoil Signature Series

- Mobil 1 (not all, would have to be the newer ones)

- RP (i think the HPS and XPR are both API-SN now, will need to check)

- Castrol Edge have a API-SN oil, again, might only be a lighter weight 5w30 etc

might start a thread over at bitog, for some more info (more independent at least)

for the GTR owners, we're probably going to want something more 15w50 so i'll see if i can find a heavier API-SN or GF-5 oil - i'm thinking it might only be like 20w50 options, but we'll see...

[SS8_Gohan]

Some Penrite options, including a 15w50

MORE PENRITE PRODUCTS TO API SN

Further to Technical Bulletin 172, Penrite are pleased to announce that we have upgraded more of our products to the new API SN specification.

HPR RANGE

These products commenced production in early January, 2011. HPR 5 HPR 10 HPR 15

Previously advised products:

SIN Range

SIN 0W-50 SIN 5W-60 SIN 10W-70 SIN 15W-50 SIN 20W-60

ENVIRO PLUS Range

Enviro Plus 0W-40 Enviro Plus 10W-50

EVERYDAY SYNTHETIC Range

Everyday Synthetic 5W-50 Everyday Synthetic 10W-40

[SS8_Gohan]

ok, more interesting info which further backs up what some of us have found and been saying... whilst API-SN/ILSAC GF-5 is good there are still going to be oils that are E-85 friendly regardless of this rating. Like the older RP's, AMSoils etc..

Looking at the Penzoil options and noticed that their Penzoil Ultra is an API SM, SL and SJ, ILSAC GF-4 BUT it ALREADY exceeds the cleaning and protection requirements of GF-5 - now, i don't know if that means it's a GF-5 certified oil but what it does seem to mean is that even non SN/GF-5 oils can be ok with E85 and that's pretty much what some of us have found. It might explain why Motul recommend ones like 6100 etc that don't have "the certification"...

As for Penzoil though...

Penzoil Ultra (not Euro)

Penzoil Platinum

Penzoil Gold

Penzoil High Mileage

the other thing to keep in mind though is that not all viscosities/weights seem to get the same ratings. So we'll need to check that.

AMSoil XL and OE lines are API-SN/GF-5 as well

[SS8_Gohan]

THIS looks interesting, not sure of certification, don't really care... it's AMSoil, specifically mentions alcohol fuels, good weight/viscosity and you can buy in 55 gallon drums

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/rd50.aspx

[SS8_Gohan]

man, the more i looked into this, the more it seems as if the E85 urban-myths strike again... i'm starting to think any decent oil will be cool, and i have a feeling i'll be changing oil a lot less once i start doing UOA's. Like not even after track days if all is ok....

i know i'm spamming this thread, but this post people will like.

Motul 300V is widely regarded on here, and for good reason. It is also widely denounced for E85 use, even by Motul themselves... not sure what they're worried about??

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&topic=64878.40 - check pg2

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&action=dlattach;topic=64878.0;id=17845;image

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&action=dlattach;topic=64878.0;id=17846;image

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=37&action=dlattach;topic=64878.0;id=19079;image

Motul held up fine, although the first two at 10w40 300v and the 3rd is 5w40 for some reason, not listed as 300V. This guy was running Mobil 1 before - wear readings were better with the Motul over the Mobil. No 'thinning' issues at all from the ester 300v.

This is on full E85 as well, not eflex levels.

[Piggaz]

Daniel, was that car using the Mobil 1 and 300V a track car only... IE change after every day/race or was it a road car?

I asked this question to the old bloke at Advan one day and he said in their race cars they use 300V, they just drop the oil after a meet. (Race cars are on E85). He waffled on about the 300V 'turning to jelly' but I have yet to see this happen in my own car.

[scotty nm35]

I saw the 300v jelly when I ran the low temp thermostat and did a few short cold start runs to work in winter. I assume the oil didnt get hot enough to evaporate the ethanol/water as that wouldnt happen very quickly at 68 degrees. No problem with the stock 86 degree one.

[SS8_Gohan]

the Evo running Motul 300v left it in after track days, hard street driving etc because the UOA said it was fine. I think he was doing auto-x events.

Scotty, maybe that's the issue then... for those people with the set of circumstances that can lead to oil degradation, cold, short trips etc... and of course if you're a company you just say no to everyone because you can't say "oh it's fine except for... this this this" you just tell people it's not suitable, which is correct in certain conditions.

[Roy]

Pump 98 is the answer to all yoru oil questions! Pfft to corn brew!

[boxheadmr]

Its not made from corn in Australia.

[SS8_Gohan]

@roy

sif!!!

It's ok Brisby, the 32 can handle it... it's time to switch.... come on, i know you want to!

EDIT: yep, either made from Sugar-cane or wheat by-product, quite sustainable and won't effect food prices. There should be a project in Vic starting soon where we'll be making ethanol from household waste.

[boxheadmr]

If you went with a API SNAP oil then would the suggestion based on the above be to not have to go crazy with the thickness. Changing often seems to be the key but i would change often on petrol as well so should be no real change.

[boxheadmr]

Sorry typed snap on phone and meant sn

[nisskid]

Pump 98 is the answer to all yoru oil questions! Pfft to corn brew!

hard to go past it in SA, can't got a few K's without a place to fill up with E85 here.