World Time Attack Challenge 2012

[zebra]

At the end of the day, freedom in the rules is what makes time attack.

Yup. As much as I don't really like time attack cars

Those who want super strict rules IMO really ought to be in a true race series. Whether That be Tarmac rallies or door to door

I do think however that EVERY car in open and pro should meet CAMS safety regs. Eg no silly bendy front cage legs or in the case of the cyber car a cage made of sticky taped toilet rolls

And any car in club with a cage should meet the regs as well

[GTR32G]

The point I was trying to make was would be nice to have a difference between open and pro regarding aero, not some super strict rules just put some sort of limit on size of aero. I guess in August we will see how many cars show up to run in open with aero designed by an aero specialist that clearly I believe could be in pro.

[zebra]

Fair call, I would never call the aero I have seen from photos and previous years super professional f1 grade stuff

Most of it looked like someone was on acid and found a rivet gun and a few sheets of alloy

But then maybe a snow plow fitted to an evo/silvia/ skyline appeals to some? Lol

[hrd-hr30]

lol it was an ex-F1 engineer responsible for those things!

and you might want to learn what the CAMS safety cage regs actually say before demanding everyone comply with it - because they already are complying with the CAMS regs which do not require cages in road reg cars even at national level speed events, and specifically permit non-complying cages in instances where cages are not mandatory. It's your who wants something other than CAMS requirements for cages.

[boxheadmr]

rules are already in place for this year but might be able to influence them for next year.

So suggestion for times of a 39 for club seems to be possible and a 27 for Pro. With the times for Pro and the aero development do you think we might see some problems with cars loosing all there grip all of a sudden like what happened in F1 many years ago.

Will we see a fan car this year?

[R31Nismoid]

Given how much material a lot of cars have had cut out, and some don't have overtly elaborate cages or setups like some of the things you are talking about... Kinda hope that doesn't happen as stuff will not end well for those concerned.

[SRS13]

The problem I see is if cars do not comply with the rules, the coordinators only find this out at scrutineering. What do they do? Do they stop those competitors from competing? If they do, how many cars do you think would miss out? Yes, it would be the entrants fault and many would argue they should not be allowed to race as they knew the rules and should comply. But the event would suffer as their are less cars competing and fans would miss out, therefore its a lose/lose situation - except for those that are playing by the rules.

General spectators probably wouldn't be concerned with the rule breaches however for competitors it would be very frustrating. As the event continues and feedback is received they probably will make some changes but I think for now they are focussed on making the event a success; financially and publicly, even if that means overlooking some technical issues...

Ideally they would draw a line in the sand for next year;

• review the rules and make whatever changes are required (based on all feedback and their own vision for the classes)
  
• makes the rules crystal clear to all entering in advance
  
• advise they will be strictly enforced and competitors wont be allowed to compete if they do not comply with the rules
  
• ensure the scrutineers understand the rules
  
• actually enforce the rules to ensure a fair playing field within the classes
  

[GTR32G]

In 2010 when I run my R32 GTR in Clubsprint I thought it was funny how they were turning cars away from scrutineering for not having a secondary bonnet restraint, I didn’t have an issues as I had one fitted from running CAMS sprints during the year but they didn’t seem to care if a GT wing or splitters was held on with self tappers that was ok…

Hopefully the scrutineers will pay more attention to how aero is fitted, what happened last weekend with the wing coming of in front of Jason Write is extremely worrying, all you need is that wing to hit a windscreen at 200kph and find the drivers face and we have very different outcome.

The CAMS supersprint series will be really cracking down on this stuff hopefully WTA will do the same, all we need is a tragic incident to make motorsport and time attack look bad.

If you show up to run and deemed to have an unsafe car you should not be allowed to run, I believe my life and other competitors – spectators life’s are more important than the event being a good show.

[zebra]

Not sure if you saw it in 2010 but the cyber evo's wing flew off over the start line, I was up in the starters cage/box. Nearly shat my pants when I saw bits of shit fly off everywhere, from memory it tore the skin off the boot lid too.

[Marlin]

I'd gladly give some time to be a judge of eligibility and safety going forward. I do thinks it's important for the event.

As someone said, many Club cars are beyond legality that I've seen this year.

[hrd-hr30]

The problem I see is if cars do not comply with the rules, the coordinators only find this out at scrutineering. What do they do? Do they stop those competitors from competing? If they do, how many cars do you think would miss out? Yes, it would be the entrants fault and many would argue they should not be allowed to race as they knew the rules and should comply. But the event would suffer as their are less cars competing and fans would miss out, therefore its a lose/lose situation - except for those that are playing by the rules.

You can see from the pics on the WTAC website that many Clubsprint cars are not legal, so its not like the organisers aren't aware that they are modified well beyond the rules now, it won't be a surprise at scrutineering. The organisers could simply do a mail-out to entrants with a reminder about the rules and what they mean if they were concerned about cars complying with the rules. There's still a couple of weeks before the event

All of these aero components not allowed in clubsprint could simply be removed. Its not like they're welded on. Or if they can't comply with Clubsprint, bump them up to Open like they do at CAMS speed events - if they find a car's not legal for a class, they reclassify it if possible. there's no need to turn anyone away.

The entrants should read the rules. Its not like WTAC rules are complicated or hard to interpret like some IPRA or Sport Sedan rules.

Edited July 25, 2012 by hrd-hr30

[Tai1or Made]

Wish I was going.

[bri73y]

I don't see why they can't let them compete/drive but just make them ineligible for the event and official positions.

Atleast then the spectators don't suffer, lets face it most spectators don't have a clue anyway, they're just there for the spectacle.

Competitors will learn very fast they need to comply if WTAC takes a stand against cars that are trying to fudge to rules.

It'll only take a few knockbacks for word to spread quickly.

Harry's idea has merit too, just bump them up!

Edited July 25, 2012 by bri73y

[The Bogan]

Cars should be made to comply with rules and regs from country of origin, its a world event is it not, if rules were to follow CAMS how would some of the Japanese or American cars get on, would they rebuild their cars to suit, or just not come.

This is a hard topic to iron out to to there being so many variables.

The safety side of things is through most important though, we,don't want drivers or spectators in any danger that could be prevented by some simple engineering safety regulations.

That's my 2 cents anyway, work is the devil and it looks like I'm missing out on going this year.

[Snowman]

Before people get too far along on their high horses for Clubsprint rules - lots of people on here have mentioned the ban on canards, splitters and diffusers but there is no where in the rules where it states these can't be run in Clubsprint.

The only thing is states must basically be "stock" from a body perspective are guards, doors, boot lids and roofs.

I think the "spirit" of the Clubsprint rules is that those other things are supposed to be banned but no-where does it specifically state this is so. There are a few other vagaries in the rules as well.

Interiors for example:

Interior

• Interior must remain as it came from the factory with the following exceptions

• Front seats may be replaced with an approved seats.

• Rear seats may be removed.

• Carpet may be removed.

• Stereo may be removed.

• Air conditioning may be removed.

• Local modification to interior for fitment of a roll cage is allowed.

So where do after market steering wheels fit into this? I'm running an after market wheel and so did check if it was ok and I was told that was fine but reading those rules you wouldn't think so. Maybe all things need is further clarification before people point fingers at ineligible cars.

[hrd-hr30]

Before people get too far along on their high horses for Clubsprint rules - lots of people on here have mentioned the ban on canards, splitters and diffusers but there is no where in the rules where it states these can't be run in Clubsprint.

The only thing is states must basically be "stock" from a body perspective are guards, doors, boot lids and roofs.

No, the rules state everything must be "as manufactured unless stated below"

It doesn't have to specifically say you can't run canards, splitters and diffusers. It has to specifically say you can.

if that's not what they meant when they wrote the rules, that's an entirely different problem!

Edited July 26, 2012 by hrd-hr30

[ssxRicho]

They have actually done a few mail-outs already.

As Snowy says, the rules are quiet open to interpretation in some respects.

IE a front bar can integrate diffuser and canards. The rules do allow for that, as it doesn't stipulate the new bar must be the same as the oem bar.

The use of an FRP Front Bar, Rear Bar, Side Skirts and Bonnet is permitted.

[hrd-hr30]

the steering wheel example is a stupid oversight in the rules, but replacing a standard steering wheel with another steering wheel is completely different from adding canards and diffusers where there wasn't any before.

[hrd-hr30]

Richo, yes your hypothetical example of a FRP front bar with canards as part of the FRP moulding would be legal, however it is clearly not the case in the examples on the WTAC website.

As would a shovelnose front on a Clubsprint car, as long as it was made from FRP instead of carbon.

btw, the "spirit of the rules" clearly isn't that only Clubsprint cars and not Open or Pro cars are allowed to use mechanical devices to generate downforce, which if you take Snowy's incorrect interpretation of the rules, is 100% OK.

Edited July 26, 2012 by hrd-hr30

[zebra]

I loled at the interior rules,

The way I read it - the interior must be standard...when it is sitting on your garage floor

There is too much "interpretation"allowed

But this event is really aimed at flat capped 18 year olds in the stands More than a super serious timed event for the entrants, hence the open ended rules

Which is fine, not my cuppa tea and as such I wont be attending.