Another "i Got Fined" Story

[Little]

Happy new year to you all.

Full story; On new years eve myself and three friends took our motorbikes up to Apollo bay to stay a night for the new year.

We rode down to Sorrento and caught the Ferry across to Queenscliff. This happened pretty much as soon as we got off the ferry at queenscliff.

So there are four bikes; a 1190cc KTM, a 600cc GSXR and myself and a friend on our CBR250 buzzboxes.

I'm at the back of the convoy and we're spaced out a lot. Its 8.30am on new years eve

We've just Turned left at a roundabout onto a curved narrow country road, the guy on the 1190 tore off a bit but the rest of us are just accelerating normally,

So i become aware of a police paddy wagon suddenly appearing on my right shoulder; no lights or siren but its only a couple of meters from me. Was i going ridiculously fast at this point? No.

Either way i shit myself and pulled over to the left but he tore around me on the wrong side of the road and past the other two going after my mate on the 1190. obviously he caught up and pulled him over.

Like a f**king idiot i did the right thing and pulled over with him (we all did) in case they wanted to ask us any questions. (two cops in the car)

They wrote him out his fine on the spot and booked him for 23 km/h over the limit. It was one of those 60 zones where they've dropped it down to 50; not sure why. Maybe an accident prone area or maybe the cows were complaining about noise pollution.

anyway they ran our everything's for all four of us and i got a stern warning for not having an L plate up. (I think it tore off in high winds on the frankston freeway; it was on when i left my house hours before.) amazingly he belived me and said he wouldn't be fining me for that.

Thats the point where he said the reason he has pulled me over is for speeding and he has me clocked at 23km/h over the speed limit... and he then says the same thing to the others; so he's done all of us.

I have never been fined before; generally I'm pretty well behaved on the roads and i have no skill with these kind of situations whatsoever. I have memorised a webpage about do's and don'ts when you are pulled over so i was trying my best to

follow that

The problem was he had me by the balls because of the stupid L plate (and my own stupidity for not securing it well enough i admit) so i felt if i aggravated him he'd fine me for that as well.

So all i said was "I don't believe i was speeding officer" and as a text book response he quipped the "what speed were you doing?" at which point i kind of shrugged and looked at the ground (like a real hero) because i wasn't sure.

Going around a corner on a bike means you need to concentrate on the bend so The Truth be told i do not know exactly what speed i was doing at that exact instant but it was sure as hell noway near 70km/h; that i swear on. Same goes for my other friend on the 250 and the other on the 600. the other guys chose to remain quiet and didn't comment about what speed they were doing.

They then actually did the whole "you'll recieve your fines in the mail" and "slow down" thing and then left; so they didn't give the three of us a fine on the spot. So we were kind of umming and ahhing about wether they would actually send them or if it was a scare tactic.

They turned up in the mail yesterday for all of us unfortunately; and they're all for 23km/h over the limit.

We think this is bullshit.

we don't think you can simultaneously speed gun 4 motorbikes and get them all at the exact same speed; because we wouldn't have been going the same speed; furthermore he didn't even put his sirens on for us; it was for the bloke in front, they just booked as as an after thought. Regardless: I was not going that fast; and neither was the other 250. because they can't. They're slow.

I'm not sure who i am supposed to talk to. Obviously for a 230 dollar fine its not worth getting a lawyer for, i'm not to fussed about that. but the points are an issue since i have only 5 on the learners. There goes the never fined record too.

Gah.

[Miguelone]

Fight them from the rooftops. Chances are there's no record of you not having your L plate not shown and even if there is, he gave you a verbal warning instead of a fine so what can he do? Obviously he can't have pinged all of you and obviously not for the same speed.

[R31Nismoid]

Sorry Miguel you are wrong. They can.

we don't think you can simultaneously speed gun 4 motorbikes

Police are recognised estimators of speed. They do not need a radar gun to book you.

As with everything there are two sides to every story. If you think it's wrong, go to court.

Expect lawyer fees of at least $700-$1000 to fight it.

I'd be surprised if legal advice didn't tell you to admit 8km/h over and take the 1 point.

If the first rider admitted as well to Police that he was over, you are going to find it even harder - that's just how it goes.

[blk94r33]

Police are recognised estimators of speed. They do not need a radar gun to book you.

Defendant- "I WAS doing 100km/h"

Officer- "I THINK he was doing 130km/h"

Case closed......

[Jack-]

I've been in a similar situation with getting impounded. Cops word > any motor vehicle user

My ordeal cost me $3000 for lawyer, plus impoundment, tow truck fees and impoundment fees, and $566 fine, all because the cop RECKONS he saw a street race, loss of traction and no hook turn :\ when in reality all I did wrong was no hook turn in peak hour traffic.

[Little]

Thanks for the facts.

Nismoid I have read that you have experience with this kind of shite; with the policy of clogging up their stupid system as much as possible.

I like it; but once again how much money do i blatantly have to waste over a $230 fine? Now that i have the infringement notice in my hands; can i still allege that i was doing a lower speed? (although there is no proof of me doing so and i wasn't) Its the points i'm worried about; i only get five of em on the learners.

So in honesty it looks like we are just going to pay up and shut up because fighting it legally is too expensive.. Arrrrrrgh! But everybody does that! And

thats the reason why we have this money laundering bullshit; they get away with it; because the majority don't stand up for themselves.

And if you do; you end up paying three thousand bucks like Jack.. So it sounds like you lost even with a lawyer! Were you a smart arse to the cop or something???

Ahh well. I had this silly idea that a police man had to be able to prove your speed with an actual measuring device.

Damnit. This shouldn't come as too much of a suprise. After all.... Vicpol are famous for being fair and understanding; right?

[stahlz_ae86]

I would have thought that if one person speeds and the cop has a radar reading for that particular road user, it is for him and him only. You should be able to get out of your fines (you and both friends) if you contest it together. If all 3 of you were to get booked also I would think he needs to prove it with individual radar readings. Compare time of day with your friends fines. Dad got out of a radar detected fine a few years ago because the second cop at the scene cleared the radar and started trying to catch next person, then he asked if he could see the reading as he didn't believe he was speeding. Long story short, he went to court and got out of it because the cop at the scene couldn't prove he had been speeding as the reading had been cleared. If you have a good driving record as well as being polite and presenting well at court that should help your cause also...

[R31Nismoid]

Long story short, he went to court and got out of it because the cop at the scene couldn't prove he had been speeding as the reading had been cleared.

Police as stated as recognised estimators of speed. They do NOT need a radar.

Further more, Police are not legally bound to show you the radar reading what so ever.

You can ask, and they are well within the law to say no.

[IOWNU]

Start by writing a letter. Sometimes it works.

If you don't get a pardon (which will most probably be the case), you can escalate matters.

Defendant- "I WAS doing 100km/h"

Officer- "I THINK he was doing 130km/h"

Case closed......

lol.

If it only it were that simple.

R31Nismoid is right on the money.

[W0rp3D]

Police as stated as recognised estimators of speed. They do NOT need a radar.

Although the cop does need to be certified for that to hold up in court, dont know whether they still do it but i know a cop that had to be certified to operate a speed camera (back when vicpol operated them).

Start by writing a letter. Sometimes it works.

If you don't get a pardon (which will most probably be the case), you can escalate matters.

Maybe you guys should split the first guys fine and get him to testify that he was speeding and he slowed down because you guys didnt speed up, might or might not work, would definately write a letter and try it though, also a lot of cop cars have onboard camera's these days, if the divvy had one then thats evidence in your favour.

[4teecal]

Defendant- "I WAS doing 100km/h"

Officer- "I THINK he was doing 130km/h"

Case closed......

.

"what speed were you doing?" at which point i kind of shrugged and looked at the ground (like a real hero) because i wasn't sure.

No. Thats case closed.

[blk94r33]

I don't think anyone actually got what I was getting at with that quote....

[JEPPE]

^lol, yah guys, don't take him too literally.

Start by writing a letter. Sometimes it works.

If you don't get a pardon (which will most probably be the case), you can escalate matters.

+1 to this. Can't hurt and you have a clean record which is a biggy, although because of the timing being nye and the fact that it was quite a severe fine it probably won't go through. But again, can't hurt to try. Have known a few people who have been pardoned before, including myself.

Also perhaps you can call up Civic Compliance or whoever handles these matter and find out for sure what the rules are on how many people can be booked at the same time. Again it most likely won't help but it's a quick phone call.

Very odd that all three of you were doing exactly the same speed over the limit >_> but cops can 'estimate' so this is most likely usual.

A fuzzy system unfortunately!

[Spunky Munky]

Just pay the fine mate as you might of sped somewhat anyhow. Take it to court and you will be up for 3-4 times as much for the fine in legs fees.

[frx026]

Not every cop will have done a speed estimation course. If that member hadn’t done one he/she would not be qualified to estimate anything. So that is something worth checking.

Also, if they had lasered/ radared you there are specific guidelines about the type of roads, locations and usage of the prescribed speed measuring devices, if these have not been done correctly you will easily win in court. There are even things about the devices itself such as calibration dates and seals that need to be valid for the device to be able to be used.

It is not as clear cut as the officer simply saying you were doing something and you’re guilty. While the weight of evidence will favour him/her it is not a guaranteed win for the cops.

With any infringement notice you have the right to take it to court. Sending a letter to the TCO is not an option in this case as the alleged speed is greater than 10km/h.

If it was me, I would take it to court.

My 2c.

[Cowboy1600]

Don't all police cars have front facing cameras fitted these days?

I'm fairly sure you can subpoena the footage. If it shows your mate taking off and you hanging back, then how can you possibly have been doing the same speed?

[MUZT3K]

Take it to court and give it a go, if you can't afford a lawyer you can always represent yourself (which I don't recommend because you have a lesser chance by far) but from what you've said you should have a good chance getting off

[Jack-]

BEFORE you do anything write a letter and state your clean record admit you MAY have had a concentration lapse but do not admit to speeding and at you learnt your lesson and you may just receive a warning

[gdogzgtr]

I would get all of your friends to make Stat Decs in relation to the incident with you all explaining that only the front rider was speeding at that speed and I would add in yours about your record and ask for warning.

If that is not successful I would contest the fine. Get legal representation as I don't see how it's possible to fine all of you for same speed at same time. I would get all of you together to fight it and I'm pretty sure that all of you would get off.

Most divisional vans don't have footage from front, there is no course for estimating speed. There are number of factors to proove in court for operating the Laser. I have a contest on for Laser fine going through the courts now, first in 10 years in job and have learnt that it's a nightmare and I never want to use a Laser again.

[Birds]

I remember telling an officer that I was going to contest the laser reading he gave me and he arked up about it...that might have been why