Engine Build And Future Amateur Competition

[Marco-R34GTT]

Hey guys,

If it isn't too much trouble, I wanted to tap into the vast knowledge pool of SAUWA to assist me through a bit of a predicament I find myself in at present. I have for a couple of years now been tossing up whether or not to do an RB 30 build (or equivalent 2.8, 3.0 or 3.2 options and so on), and now I have committed to completing my engine build (for the record, my head is already worked, cammed, ported & polished ect). I'm at a point I'd like to complete the build and get it out of the way, but obviously I'd like to do it once and do properly (If that means the difference between a half-arsed 20k build or a proper 30k so be it).

The crux of my problem is that I would also like to involve myself in some competition in the near future, I was aiming for Targa but have since been talked out of it (not in a peer pressure sense, but weight up the economics and the technical aspects and it isn't at all worth my while), so I'm looking for alternatives. My build is likely to feature a nitto stroker kit (3.0 or even 3.2), hopefully a solid turbo (my tuner has recommended a single garret turbo and my engine builder a TT set up he's taken from an RB26 with reconditioned snails), I'll have to upgrade injectors and while I was at it I was thinking of going to a front facing plenum (mainly to reduce piping and simplifying the layout in the engine bay), as well as going to a 6Boost manifold (I may as well while I'm at it...).

HOWEVER,

I find that targa and even improved production don't allow displacement increases.

ie:

4.5 Supercharging: Supercharging is permitted under the following conditions (i) If a supercharger/s is recognised as standard production for the model, and all the following conditions are met, the restricting orifice referred to in 4.5(ii) need not be fitted. • All components associated with the induction system must remain operable, in situ, and unmodified. • There are no additional components associated with the induction system fitted. • Maximum inlet pressure and engine static compression ratio must remain in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications for the vehicle. • The engines swept volume is not varied from standard by more than 2%. • A boost monitor, as specified by CAMS, is fitted. (ii) Where a supercharging system is not recognised for a vehicle, or where a vehicle recognised with a supercharging system does not comply with 4.5(i), a restricting orifice must be fitted to the inlet tract/s prior to the air entering the supercharging device/s so that all air used in the combustion process of the engine must pass through the orifice/s. For vehicles utilising a turbine type compressor, the restrictor must be fitted as per diagram 254.4 (see “Rally/Road”in the CAMS Manual of Motor Sport), save that the maximum internal diameter of the air intake into the compressor is 36.0mm where a single supercharging device is fitted,S p e c i f i c a t i o n s o f A u t o m o b i l e s – G r o u p 3 J L a s t u p d a t e d : 0 1 / 0 1 / 2 0 1 2 6 © Confederation of Australian Motor Sport Ltd. All use subject to Conditions of Use at www.camsmanual.com.au or 27.0mm where two devices are fitted. For other types of superchargers, the upstream extremity of the restriction must be situated a maximum of 50mm from the upstream extremity of the moving compressing media and be maintained for a distance of at least 3mm downstream. The maximum diameter of the restricting orifice/s must be complied with at all temperatures. Multiple supercharger installations are only permitted when fitted as standard to the model concernedwhereupon the original number and type of supercharging device shall be retained.

Which in essence suggests that swept volume cannot be increased from stock (hence no stroking), and also, I understand that induction remaining unmodified means no alterations to intake manifold or turbocharger (or TT set-up).

Also,

Exhaust: The complete exhaust system is free downstream of the exhaust port (save for turbosupercharged vehicles complying with 4.5(i) where the exhaust is free from the exit of the turbocharger) provided it complies with Schedule B (refer "General Requirements for Cars and Drivers"). The original exhaust mounting brackets may be removed and additional brackets may be fitted, provided that their sole function is the location of the exhaust.

Which I guess rules out exhaust manifold too..

I'm a bit at sea with all this, and I do need to make up my mind soon about what direction I take and how I go about the build. Also, if I may say so now, I have already spent the best part of 4k on suspension (Bilstein coil-overs all round, camber arms & traction rods), and I've also got some R34 Brembos lined up as well as increased cooling capacity. I'm not here for a dyno queen or a one-hit-wonder, I'm prepared to do it properly. I guess what I'm asking as well, is given the nature of my build, what categories would there be available to me if I were to proceed with the set-up I've described??

Thanks guys, I'll appreciate any useful or constructive feedback!

Edited February 13, 2012 by Marco-R34GTT

[R31Nismoid]

What do you want to race in?

Competitive or just for fun?

Are you going to totally strip it and fully cage it or keep interior?

Targa/Tarmac Rally is not the same as doing Improved Prod either.

Sounds like you just wanna build a club level circuit car. Hate to say it... But in my experiences, Bilstein suspension for a car that will do road type events, will be largely rubbish.

[Marco-R34GTT]

Well I don't really know yet, as I said I was looking at targa but I just don't think it will work given what I have in mind for the build. For starters it would be a bit of 'competitive fun', stuff against the clock, no door-to-door paint trading stuff yet, I don't feel anywhere near experienced enough to do so and I should work up to that (also, I would require a daily, which I am also working towards). In time, given that I will have more money to commit, and a daily driver down the track, I intend to gradually make it more and more hardcore, to which point I will have it stripped and caged.

I'm running Bilstein PSS9 coil-overs, I had them recommended by WA suspensions and I even had the sales rep (who is also a SAUWA club official) tune the suspension with/for me at a few events. I must say I cannot complain about them one bit!

Cheers for your help mate, I have to decide on this build rather soon, so any assistance is much appreciated!

[Marlin]

If you REALLY loved the idea of doing Targa, you'd build a car to suit it without hesitation.

The thrill of doing a tarmac rally will far outweigh the thrill of having an additional 200 killerwasps.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Marlin

[Marco-R34GTT]

If you REALLY loved the idea of doing Targa, you'd build a car to suit it without hesitation.

The thrill of doing a tarmac rally will far outweigh the thrill of having an additional 200 killerwasps.

Mate that isn't really fair, growing up in the country really made it impossible to pursue motorsport in any form, it was practically inaccessible (Sport meant you were awesome at footy, cricket or tennis at a strech). It is not through a lack of dedication, desire or passion to do targa, just due to my personal circumstances at present that avenue really isn't isn't available to me, however, I'd love to give it a crack in the near future! :-)

I don't disagree, I just don't think I'm able to build a competitive car given how much the big boys pour into their cars.

In the end I'm trying to work out what approach I'll take with this build, and if it so happens targa is an option so-be it. However I have had my heart set on building a stroker, I'd love to go that way, and if I can do some amateur racing in it, even better!

Killerwasps hahaha, I nearly forgot that ad lol!

[Dearlove]

Mark and i have been working together on this seeing what is available to us in the way of event to attends (I'm using a merc myself)

we're looking at the http://www.speedeventseries.com/documents/series-documents which is hill climbs/ road rally etc.. Now the regs aren't up yet which makes it hard to decide what 'classes' are available.

i just remember hill climbs using the IPR cams regs as a guide line, hence the question about the IPR regs

Marks doing a stroker kit on his rb and I'm also going down much the same route with my merc + turbo, it's a bt hard to ask questions on what we can and cant do when we dont really know what we want to do in the first place

just something that we can learn as we compete, which i was told hill climbs were the way to go for that

[Roy]

Build your stroker... have fun. If you ever want to run a tarmac event then a std engine and hi flow turbo is what, 3k...small price in the grand scheme of things after you have built up a race car with a stroker engine

[sav man]

No point running IPRA with a turbo because of the restrictor. Do you have a open circuit series in WA?

[UWAM]

http://www.speedeventseries.com/

Fairly easy and cheap way to drive fast.

[Snowman]

if you want to build a stroker - have a crack at the "Superlap" kind of series. There is more and more of them popping up now with the success of the big one in Sydney (eg "Trackbattle" came to W.A last year - although I have no idea if it was a one season wonder or not). And you can make a trip to NSW in August each year your highlight. You can go nuts and do what you like with those rules.

As already mentioned the Speedevent series in W.A is some fun too - especially the fun they have out the back of Collie. A time attack car is fine for those.

Currently Tarmac in W.A. you have the 2 Rallies - (Targa West and Targa South West) - but the rules over there are super restrictive compared to the rest of the Australian Targa universe which makes it hard as a W.A. local. But as already mentioned if you are building a Targa car start with the regs and go from there. Same with IPRA.

But I thought there was some other cool door-door event in W.A. with their own set of rules? The series that the local Bridgestone guy runs his crazy R32 in?

[Marco-R34GTT]

http://www.speedeventseries.com/

Fairly easy and cheap way to drive fast.

So given my ideal build (3.0 or 3.2) with either turbo setup, and modified intake and exhaust manifold, wouldn't be a problem in the speed series events then?

[djr81]

if you want to build a stroker - have a crack at the "Superlap" kind of series. There is more and more of them popping up now with the success of the big one in Sydney (eg "Trackbattle" came to W.A last year - although I have no idea if it was a one season wonder or not). And you can make a trip to NSW in August each year your highlight. You can go nuts and do what you like with those rules.

As already mentioned the Speedevent series in W.A is some fun too - especially the fun they have out the back of Collie. A time attack car is fine for those.

Currently Tarmac in W.A. you have the 2 Rallies - (Targa West and Targa South West) - but the rules over there are super restrictive compared to the rest of the Australian Targa universe which makes it hard as a W.A. local. But as already mentioned if you are building a Targa car start with the regs and go from there. Same with IPRA.

But I thought there was some other cool door-door event in W.A. with their own set of rules? The series that the local Bridgestone guy runs his crazy R32 in?

Snowie, according to one who was there (allegedly) the Track Battle time attack at Wanneroo sucked and blew at the same time (allegedly). The best, competitive series is probably the speed event series, as mentioned. You can, as long as it is safe, run what you brung in the SES.

Targa SW is the next yocal tarmac rally. In the interim there is the Alistair McRae Rally sprint series for those who want to have a try. On tomorrow actually.

The classes for door to door stuff are on the WASCC website.

For my 10 cents worth - the bloke should just start doing something. You cant start at the top anyway and even if you could it is a bad idea given the size of the jarrah trees next to the roads around these parts.

[UWAM]

So given my ideal build (3.0 or 3.2) with either turbo setup, and modified intake and exhaust manifold, wouldn't be a problem in the speed series events then?

I believe so. You'd have to check with the organisors about the sup regs and entry rules, but it would be fine. I've driven in one event and been to a few, and there's a wide range of cars there, from streeters to purpose built machines.

If the car's running now, I'd advise getting it on a track and get a few kays seat time in it, before you go with the engine build. Unless the engine builds a higher priority for you than doing track events. There's usually plenty of time to be made in driver ability and car setup before power is needed. (Hints, get best tyres you can, use some sort of temperature reader to get an idea of pressures and cambers, stiffer springs/bars are not always better, more damping is not always better)

[Nee-san]

UWAM, is that last years FSAE car in your avatar ?

[UWAM]

Sure is.

http://motorsport.mech.uwa.edu.au/fileadmin/media/gallery/2011/FSAE-A/2011.12.18/website-45.jpg

[Nee-san]

How did the fairings go in the test you guys did at the end of comp ? any difference ?

[UWAM]

Can't see much of a difference in the data, wasn't much of a test though. We really need to do a proper back to back test, see what affect they have. CFD says they help, so be good to do some verification of that as well.

Bit of a moot point as well, I would bet money there's going to be a rule this year saying "UWA's fairings are not allowed" or something to that effect.

[MBS206]

Beat advice? Keep te engine as stock as possible, and get out to track days and sprints. No point having 400 KWs if you havent learnt to drive a car properly in anger yet.

Throwing money at a car does not make you quick. Practice does.