Mr30 Skyline, Not Turning Over

[Liamt]

Hey guys, thought i would turn to the experts for some advice as im not having much luck.

last week i replaced my O-rings on my fuel injectors after it smelling pretty badly of fuel after acceleration and idling at the lights, got them all on and put everything back together and started it up now the problems all began from here. first off it ran for about 5 minutes or so just testing the rev's and what not and all of a sudden it just cut out. we traced it back to be the "ENG CTRL" fuse. the standard amperage fuses in these are ment to be 10, after figuring this out the car would blow every fuse up to a 25 amp fuse, but not a 30 amp. i managed to fix this problem it turned out to be a sensor that sits on top of the thermostat ( ive forgotten what its called).

Now the car cranks on a 10 amp fuse just fine, but still not turning over. ive checked for fuel and yes there is fuel. ive checked for spark and there is none coming from the ignition module (coil) but there is power to the module itself. after thinking that i was on a win, i went and bought a new one and swapped it all over, plugged it in, and to my surprise it still wont turn over. there is still power at the module.

while we had the problem with the engine control fuse we did many tests, one being that if it had spark, and yes it did. i have checked all fuses and relays and they all seem to be in working order.

after doing some test's today ive found that there was no power at the "throttle Position sensor", which has got me thinking after a friend tested it the other day and had power there.

now my questions is, does anyone have any idea what it could be? do these motors have "crank angle sensors"? what else can i check?

thanks in advance, Liam

[jrh001]

Hi Liam,

(Seems like all the experts are busy at the moment.) I'm not sure I understand the problem, possibly confused by the headline saying "not turning over". The engine will crank but not fire, is that right? And you've replaced the coil, or was it the ignition module (on the side of the distributor)? Does it have spark now? Have you had a look inside the dizzy, rotor OK, cap OK, no excessive play in the shaft, etc...

JH

[Factory 5]

Firstly, standard L24e doesnt have o-ring injectors, they have hose tails.

If you replaced the rubber ring that seats the injector into the manifold then that wont solve anything except a minor air leak.

If the car is smelling of fuel,

It could be the injector bodys are prone to leaking (very common) and is due to heat stress, and 30 years of motoring. Replacement of the actual injector is the best solution. Dont even worry about 2nd hand ones (unles they are professionally reconditioned and tested, and have a warranty)

Injectors can also have a full blockage, or partial blockage (not opening all the way, or not shutting all the way) this can lead to constant stream of fuel misting in, making it rich. Its also not the best for the engine as it will wash the bores and seep fuel into the sump, thinning out oil and other vapour problems....

Another thing for running rich (fuel smell) is the AFM (Air Flow Meter) may need some fine tuning, over the years the spring tension on the flap has relaxed a bit.

You can tighten up the cog but must be careful not to let it go and unwind, also mark the existing cog location so you have reference. Normally (on the 6 cars Ive tuned) tightening it by about 4 to 5 teeth is enough on most cars (varying from 160,000km to 480,000km)

There are a vew detailed tutorials on the webz, I may be able to dig one up when Im not at work...

NEXT

Running for 5 min then cutting out. This could have something to do with bad fuel, if you have got fuel from a location that may have water damage (like QLD) or where slack dodgey service stations wash out storage tanks with solvents and not removing it all before refilling, or dislodging sedimentation and it ends up in your tank.

The solvents can strip gunk from your tank/fuel lines/filters etc. too, and then block the injectors.

Injectors have a tiny little filter, and are blocked easily with shite fuel and silt etc.

Ive had the problem in the past of 5 min running then dead, no start from a batch of QLD fuel, took about 3 weeks to get it sorted, changed the fuel filter a few times and got the injectors cleaned (they were 12 months old new ones)

Sensor on Thermostat.

This can be either the water temp sender to your dash (1 wire from memory)

or the water temp sensor to the ECU

or the 'thermotime sensor' which has something to do with idle and warm up. Both these sensors have the same or similar plugs, its really easy to get them back to front. Try swapping it a few times to see any difference.

".... ive checked for spark and there is none coming from the ignition module (coil) but there is power to the module itself..."

There is a condenser/resistor that may be a problem, it can be damaged by power spikes or reverse current (accidently wiring stuff backwards)

There wont be power at the Throttle sensor as its just a 3 way switch, when throttle is shut, it reads 0v.

When open it does close a circuit, then when your pedal is right to the floor another circuit kicks in.

%0 open = circuit is open, no voltage signal

%1 to %99 open = circuit is closed, steady voltage signal

%100 = secondary circuit closed (wide open throttle) additional voltage signal (this can be triggered by a switch behind the accelerator pedal too)

"crank angle sensors"?

No CAS on these old cars mate... its an entirely different era of technology (although the Turbo ones DO have a CAS built into the distributor)

Id do the following if I was you:

Check for leaking injector bodys. (check for wet spots around the injectors)

swap out current load of fuel with new stuff from a good servo that sees a fair bit of traffic (put the old stuff in ya lown mower cans or similar)

Get new fuel filter (they have to be high pressure rated, and cost about $30, same part as the R31 skyline, 300zx etc) dont use the clear plastic ryco filers they will rupture

Maybe post up a pic of youre engine bay, we might be able to spot something that doesnt look right...

[Liamt]

Hi Liam,

(Seems like all the experts are busy at the moment.) I'm not sure I understand the problem, possibly confused by the headline saying "not turning over". The engine will crank but not fire, is that right? And you've replaced the coil, or was it the ignition module (on the side of the distributor)? Does it have spark now? Have you had a look inside the dizzy, rotor OK, cap OK, no excessive play in the shaft, etc...

JH

sorry for the confusion, yes it will crank but wont fire. ive replaced the coil and there is no spark, i have had a look both rotor button and cap have been replaced 2 months ago with brand new parts and no excessive play either.

Firstly, standard L24e doesnt have o-ring injectors, they have hose tails.

If you replaced the rubber ring that seats the injector into the manifold then that wont solve anything except a minor air leak.

If the car is smelling of fuel,

It could be the injector bodys are prone to leaking (very common) and is due to heat stress, and 30 years of motoring. Replacement of the actual injector is the best solution. Dont even worry about 2nd hand ones (unles they are professionally reconditioned and tested, and have a warranty)

Injectors can also have a full blockage, or partial blockage (not opening all the way, or not shutting all the way) this can lead to constant stream of fuel misting in, making it rich. Its also not the best for the engine as it will wash the bores and seep fuel into the sump, thinning out oil and other vapour problems....

Another thing for running rich (fuel smell) is the AFM (Air Flow Meter) may need some fine tuning, over the years the spring tension on the flap has relaxed a bit.

You can tighten up the cog but must be careful not to let it go and unwind, also mark the existing cog location so you have reference. Normally (on the 6 cars Ive tuned) tightening it by about 4 to 5 teeth is enough on most cars (varying from 160,000km to 480,000km)

There are a vew detailed tutorials on the webz, I may be able to dig one up when Im not at work...

NEXT

Running for 5 min then cutting out. This could have something to do with bad fuel, if you have got fuel from a location that may have water damage (like QLD) or where slack dodgey service stations wash out storage tanks with solvents and not removing it all before refilling, or dislodging sedimentation and it ends up in your tank.

The solvents can strip gunk from your tank/fuel lines/filters etc. too, and then block the injectors.

Injectors have a tiny little filter, and are blocked easily with shite fuel and silt etc.

Ive had the problem in the past of 5 min running then dead, no start from a batch of QLD fuel, took about 3 weeks to get it sorted, changed the fuel filter a few times and got the injectors cleaned (they were 12 months old new ones)

Sensor on Thermostat.

This can be either the water temp sender to your dash (1 wire from memory)

or the water temp sensor to the ECU

or the 'thermotime sensor' which has something to do with idle and warm up. Both these sensors have the same or similar plugs, its really easy to get them back to front. Try swapping it a few times to see any difference.

".... ive checked for spark and there is none coming from the ignition module (coil) but there is power to the module itself..."

There is a condenser/resistor that may be a problem, it can be damaged by power spikes or reverse current (accidently wiring stuff backwards)

There wont be power at the Throttle sensor as its just a 3 way switch, when throttle is shut, it reads 0v.

When open it does close a circuit, then when your pedal is right to the floor another circuit kicks in.

%0 open = circuit is open, no voltage signal

%1 to %99 open = circuit is closed, steady voltage signal

%100 = secondary circuit closed (wide open throttle) additional voltage signal (this can be triggered by a switch behind the accelerator pedal too)

"crank angle sensors"?

No CAS on these old cars mate... its an entirely different era of technology (although the Turbo ones DO have a CAS built into the distributor)

Id do the following if I was you:

Check for leaking injector bodys. (check for wet spots around the injectors)

swap out current load of fuel with new stuff from a good servo that sees a fair bit of traffic (put the old stuff in ya lown mower cans or similar)

Get new fuel filter (they have to be high pressure rated, and cost about $30, same part as the R31 skyline, 300zx etc) dont use the clear plastic ryco filers they will rupture

Maybe post up a pic of youre engine bay, we might be able to spot something that doesnt look right...

after putting o rings on them and it starting it the smell of fuel had gone.

the "thing" i was talking about on top of the thermostat turned out to be the temperature sender that was shorting, i dont live in an area that is wet or had recent floods being from Melbourne and all petrol stations i fill up at have a high turn over of customers.

i have tested the resistor/condenser underneath the coil and it has power to it, i havnt unplugged any of the wiring linking to that either.

i wasnt sure if these motors had a crank angle sensor and thank you for confirming that for me, it was just a hunch

i will try the new injectors filters and what not, but is that really what could be causing there to be no spark at all at the coil?

i had a price on injectors 2 weeks ago, and they came into be $330 each injector, and thats not for reconditioning mine or anything like that.

thanks, Liam

[Liamt]

well i had a mate over last night, both him and his dad are mechanics and he tried to sort out the problem. he diagnosed it to be the dizzy itself so i picked one up from the wreckers today.

still hasnt fixed the no firing issue.

[ydr030]

dude if u have this problem since ur worked on the car it something youve done. chek ur work, mayb a plugs off

[Factory 5]

I reckon change the fuel still.... AND the filter!!

[ydr030]

wiper blades 4 sure

[66yostagea]

Be CAREFUL with dizzies. There are two types, one for auto, the other for manual. The R30 is funny beast LOL I have had 4 R30s and still have a manual I have had experience with the wrong dizzy in one I bought. With the IC distributor the CAS is in the dizzy.If you have no spark and you have the right dizzy, check for broken wires.

Get a multimeter. About $30 from AutoBarn etc. And systematically check all wires in the electrical system. Dont forget to check all plug leads and the coil input and output.

I have a workshop manual for the R30s. It came from WA, but I can't remember. Ask Dennis, Ghostrider, he will know.

The only other real problem I have had with the L24E is the fuel pressure relief.valve.But that is not electrical. However it can cause the engine to stop, but usually when it warms up.

Hope this helps.

[Liamt]

wiper blades 4 sure

i told my missus it started because the wiper blades were loose, she is so gullible....

anyway nothing to do with fuel, it was the ignition module on the side of the dizzy. turns out there a sealed unit and it had broken the seal.

chucked a new one on and hasnt missed a beat yet.

[Liamt]

thanks for everyones input

[jrh001]

it was the ignition module on the side of the dizzy...

chucked a new one on and hasnt missed a beat yet.

Just wondering... where did you get a new ignition module? I thought they'd be difficult to find.

JH

[ydr030]

lol

[Liamt]

Just wondering... where did you get a new ignition module? I thought they'd be difficult to find.

JH

Repco mate, surprisingly they have most engine parts for these cars.