Need legal advice, traffic offence related.

[DTMPWR]

Hi People, does anyone have a basic knowledge of the Law?

I have to go to court on Friday for a red light offence.

Last June on the way to the snow, I stopped on amber for a traffic light in the ACT around 5am, anyway after about 20sec, I saw this car hammering up behind me, I moved forward about a car length, anyway the car turned left on the green arrow, and I got flashed for crossing the white line I reversed back once i know i was out of danger and never drove through the intersection. I wrote a letter explaining that I stopped on amber, moved forward because it was 5am and was worried that this dude had been drinking and was going to run into me.

They just replied back saying that won’t do, pay the $400fine and lose 3 points or go to court.

So I am going to court, now I have no idea what I am meant to do or say, I am defending my self. So do I plead Guilty, because I Cleary crossed the white line, I admit that, but I did it for a good reason, I also reversed back once I knew the car was not going to hit me, or do I plead not guilty because I wasn’t in the wrong?

Also they have the date of the court hearing wrong on all the letters, it says 30th march 2004, when they mean April. Can I get off on that technicality?

[ferni]

tough one mate... the best bet is to probably just pay it, but i'd probably be stuburn and (try) to fight it bastards

[gatty]

fighting it may incure extra costs mate...think about it

[rsx84]

firstly: bad luck, i've been told that some of the cameras they use may take 2 pictures (that was by a mate though) ask and see. hope that helps??

[croat]

i know exactly what to do. Have been in similar situation. The best chance you got is if you have a clean record. Anyways get character references from people you know so that they are written in a way that supports your argument. The character references should be from your parents, and other people preferably in government jobs. If you have a bad driving record dont bother, as if you lose court fees add onto the fine ($60). Dress to impress and make sure you call him "your worship"

[ferni]

yeah you have viewed the photo haven't you? if there is 2 cars in it then they can't fine you

[GTRgeoff]

As I indicated to another member on the forum, if you have a self defence related argument the police have to PROVE beyond any doubt that it wasn't self defence/protection of life and limb/self preservation.

Have a quick chat with a lawyer and do some research on line.

An ex-cop in Vic recently had a fine for speeding in a small country town where he lives and has one camera. He claimed a ute pulled out almost tee boning him so he gunned the motorcycle he was riding to clear the hazard as stopping would not have done it. The cops persisted with the case, the magistrate was furious and demanded an explanation as to why they continued to prosecute when thay had no proof that self preservation was not the case.

Case closed.

Your lucky you wrote a letter. The technicality probably won't rub but you have a case for self preservation. It was specifically noted here that this will cruel every red light camera case, as well as some speed related, in Vic for those in the know.

[Guilty]

Another way is to go to the library or law library or whatever...just somewhere where you can research past cases. IF you cant find it, go to a lawyer and seek advice. Go look for similar cases like yours and use it as a precedent if the case was overturned due to whatever reason. I'm sure your not the first and only person to be in this situation as shiiiit happenz...

but anywayz good luck mate and hope all goes well

[SKY031]

... the best bet is to probably just pay it

:werd:

[Craved]

as rsx84 said, red light camera's do take 2 photos, so they can see if you went through the intersection. which will help actually prove your point that you didn't proceed through the intersection, coupled with your defense and the fact that you didn't just accept the fine. Good Luck

[[ant]]

yeh red lite cameras take 2 photos, one as u cross the first line into the intersection, then a second as u pass out of the back of the intersection, and they can measure the time delay n things between them to work stuff out like speed etc.

so yeh have u gone to see the photo and asked about a phoito coming out the other side too. coz u should be able to get away with that, on the self preservation thing and the technicality that u didnt actualy go thru the intersection u just crept over it. i didnt think the fine even came if u just tripped the front camera once to be honest, as ive seen pple do it before and it hasnt come.

[Abo Bob]

Ok just to clear up a couple of things posted here.

In NSW now you call the Magistrate Your Honour.

The camera does take two photos, one after the light is red to show the empty intersection and one when the thing is tripped so hopefully the first photo will show you stopped with your brake lights on.

You are probably going to be asking for a "Section 10" which means you are pleading guilty but that you are asking the Court to record no conviction because of x circumstances.

[DTMPWR]

I have not seen the photos, I asked for them and never got a reply.

Also I live in Sydney but have to go to court in Canberra because that is where the offence happened.

I will do my best, kinda sux getting pinned when you are innocent. Also i have been driving for 5 years and only lost 1 point, in a Friends M3 on a road trip to Melbourne. lol

Anyway Thanks again

[Steve]

No photos, well that would be the first thing I would be bringing up! No photos means no evidence.

Dont plead guilty, as soon as you do, you are rooted. Tell them exactly what happened, that you saw the intersection was clear, that you were concerned the car behind was going to have trouble stopping. Dont interupt the magistrate, be polite.

At the end of the day, you are going to have to pay costs whether you plead guilty or not guilty.

Ask if you can pay the fine at $50 per month, if they do end up stinging you - as you are on a limited income:)

[b0neR]

Thats a bit dodgy, that they didnt let you see the photos when you asked for them. I'd use that in court if you decide to defend the case.

[deano_82]

I was taken to the cop station on the first day i had my license years ago but i was towing this guy on his skateboard and drove out of a car park, thinkin he was gone and lookedin rear view mirror and he had stacked it. some old hag dobbed me in to the cops.

so here i am on my bday getting interogated like i was on murder charges, they charged me dangerous driving causing bodily harm max penality 2yo loss license 2000$ fine possiblty of jail under 18 so this was out of the q, but anyway point of my story i was toldby police that i could pick my interview tape up after the hearing so i went down there after the hearing only for them to tell me i had to get it before the hearing was over. i got a good lawyer got the charge brought down to dangerous driving pleaded guilty but was only made to do a defensivedriving course and have no conviction or record.

i got my own back about a year later when i was working in video store and the cop came in that charged me andhe had a heap of porn and just hey hows it goin mr blah blah and hes like oh oh how did you know that was my name, i just smiled and said oh i just got a good memory.

seek legal advice but if you plead not guilty it may be taken to trial and if you lose you will be up for big $$$

[wreckedhead]

dont need to get character refrences, thats only if you pleed guilty, if you pleed not guilty then youll need a defence which is liable in court, like eg brake failure, if your brakes failed your not liable to pay the fine as long as you can get a letter from your mechanic to say that your brakes wernt working properly and you were driving slowly to the shop so you can fix it.

thats a liable defffence but if you tell the judge "i thoguht i was going to get hit by another car" then he'll say " well did it hit you" and you say "no" and he'll say " well then you crosssed the white line, soory 400 bucks and 3 points + court costs"

goood luck champ hope that helps.

[SKY031]

I will do my best, kinda sux getting pinned when you are innocent.

You admitted in the very first post that you entered the intersection on a red light.

If you didn't enter the intersection, the camera wouldn't have gone off.

If you moved into the intersection far enough to cause the camera to go off, you were placing yourself (and any oncoming traffic) in danger.

You may have been concerned about being rear ended, but it was still a red light.

The law is pretty much black and white.

Let us know how you go

[TasR.X]

... like eg brake failure, if your brakes failed your not liable to pay the fine as long as you can get a letter from your mechanic to say that your brakes wernt working properly and you were driving slowly to the shop so you can fix it...

dont say that, because why would you be driving to a mechanics at 5am?

[croat]

Ok just to clear up a couple of things posted here.

 

In NSW now you call the Magistrate Your Honour.

You are clearly mistaken here, its Your Worship. Your Honour is to a Judge...