Need help with 240z GTR AWD sytem

[240gtrz]

Hello to all,

This is my 1st post and was looking for some good feed back on a project that I'm starting on. I have a 1970 240z and a drive train from a R32 1994 GTR that I will be installing in it. I need to know if the AWD setup used outside of the GTR would work as to adding an advantage to the handling and lanching of the car? I will not be using the stock GTR engine computer but a TEC3. I understand a little about how the AWD system works but some US boys are telling me that the GTR's AWD set up will only work correctly in a GTR that is using all of it's stock computers. I feel you guys know a lot more about these car then the guys up here so can some one please tell me what does a GTR race car for a road course use in the way of AWD set up and how do they control the AWD system. Is there a way to controll the system to adjust it on the fly manually or does any one know what AWD bias setting work? It would be great to here from some how has done something like this or could put me in touch with some one.

My car will be a streetable track day car and for general fun at the track and street. I would like handling, accelaration , and braking to be high on the list. I not really into just drag racing but wouldn't mind putting the hurt on a few people :aroused: If any thing on the car will not help it meet these goals then I wouldn't install it and this is why I'm asking this ?. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Tractionless in the USA!!!

Dan

[Duncan]

Generally the 32 gtr system allows too much oversteer by default so a controller is a good idea.

There are 2 main options:

HKS make a torque split controller, you could do a search on here there have been a few threads.

The other option is a homemade controller like this one, which actually works well. http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0060/article.html

Either allow you to modify the bias of the front torque, ie move torque to front wheels earlier than the stock controller would.

Sounds like you've got a hell of a project ahead, good luck.

[RPMZ]

There was a car in Australia that was going to do the same conversion, but after long time in the making the project was cancelled.

It would be better, cheaper and easier with a better end result to strip the R32 GTR as much as possible, rather than install all this 4wd gear into a Zed. You will need hundreds or thousands of custom made parts to make it all work well, and at the end the car will weight over 1200kg/ 2700lb so it’s not really worth all the trouble. However there is a 4WD drag 240z in Japan with all GTR drive-train. Would like to see you do it, but I really don’t think it’s worth it. Just drop an RB26 with mods into your 240Z, get some Nittos and 9s should be possible as there is a car like that in Japan. It does 9.9 @ 146.7mph.

[wreckedhead]

trust me dont waste your time and money, beter invest all the money you were going to spen on building a gtr that will run easy 10's or even 9's. if you have the money..

[urbanoperations]

it would be differant and rare, but as said before you would need a lot of time on your hands and a lot of money, you would prob be better off just dropping something differant into one, rb series motors but as i have heard that is another expensive option..

[LaL]

Do it, i would if i had the time and money.. why not be differnt from everyone else ? everyone would totaly cream for this.

[240gtrz]

Thanks to all for the replies!!!

I know it is a big project but there is a number of other z owners doing just the engine install and not the complete AWS setup. In the last 2 years I have purchased enough tools for a complete machine shop and metal fab shop for doing just about anything you can think of to a car.

I not worried about the amount of work it will take to do this, but if the AWD system installed outside of a GTR will help in the handling on a road/track by setting the AWD bias to a setting i.e. 70/30, and that it would produce better handling and also traction for lanching the car when needed from a stop. I know the AWD system would be great if I were to only use the car for drag racing but I also like doing autocross and road/track events. Does any one know what a GTR track car uses for controlling the AWD since I know they are not using the stock computer in their cars? Would you guys know of anybody I could email who is an expert on this subject or know how to manual control the AWD or if a manual control of the AWD has any advantages over a rear drive car?

I guess I should also tell you guys why I'm doing the project. Since GTR's in the USA are damn expensive and few and far between, I can buy all the shop tools and still build a car for about what a GTR cost in the USA. Another thing is the right hand drive is not a good thing in a left hand country!!

I'm ready now to start on this but I need to get an answer on this problem so that I can plan out the details at the get go.

Thanks-Dan

[phorj]

Generally the 32 gtr system allows too much oversteer by default so a controller is a good idea.  

There are 2 main options:

HKS make a torque split controller, you could do a search on here there have been a few threads.

The other option is a homemade controller like this one, which actually works well.  http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0060/article.html

Either allow you to modify the bias of the front torque, ie move torque to front wheels earlier than the stock controller would.

Sounds like you've got a hell of a project ahead, good luck.

HKS's item is called the ETC (Electronic Torque-Split Controller). and will allow you to manually change the amount of front / rear torque.

You can make your own (just a circuit board this tampers with the voltage the torque-split controller reads - like a Elec. Boost. Cont.) I have heard of these being made with good results (and cheaper than the HKS item), also a few horror stories about adjusting the voltage the wrong way and the device not working properly.

I think the stock T-S Cont. (nissan one), is under the trim between the driver and passenger side (under the plastic near the hand-brake and flip-top storage), this is also where is the HICAS (4ws) controller is.

You don't need the Stock ECU (computer) as the Torque-Split Controller works as a stand-alone unit, as does the HICAS unit (however the HICAS unit need specially inputs from the steering wheel - can elaborate if required). Alternatively you can just diable the HICAS buy purchasing a HICAS-lock-bar (a metal rod that replaces the rear steering arm) - most people do this if there car is going to the track as HICAS can be a bit unpredictable depending on the situation you put the car in!

The advantages of 4wd should not only be looked at from a drag point of view, but the stock GTR 4wd would be on par with a rwd that has had SOME suspension work done (depanding on how much money was spent - as is the case with everything). But if you do the suspension and have 4wd, you'd be better off again.

4wd is usually better for launching and makes rocketing from corners a little less hairy, other than that though... it's just dead weight!

I think a properly setup rwd car is the way to go for the track, but if you're like me and want to fiddle / play with stuff / make and break, etc then this project is the way to go.

I don't know how well the GTR driveline in fit into a Z, but if you've got the time and money... why not.

I don't know if I've been of any help at all, but if you do go ahead with the project I'd be very interested to see the build-up... so post some pics or setup a website!

Good Luck.

[Roy]

If you are able to fabricate parts yourself, and know ppl that know what they are doing who can lend a hand, whilst it will be expensive, it can be done. There are a few VL Commodores getting around with GTR runing gear including the 4WD. I saw one at a club event in Newcastle a while back, it was white, so can be done. I know of another one in Melbourne that was built by an ex HDT mechanic, i think it was maroon from memoy.

Be cool to see, but how strict are US authorities on highly modded cars, ignoring the cost of building the car, the cost of engineering the car could be damn expensive as well.

[240gtrz]

Good info-thanks.

Let's see if I understand this. I know the G-sensors are on the console and I have those, and the complete resub assembly with the pump for the diff. I also have a computer that I'm told mount in the trunk under the shelf in the rear window. Is this the computer that runs the pump for the transfer diff? I know the GTR is designed as a rear drive with front wheel drive on demand, but is there any harm in having a 70/30 bias all the time as far as harming the drive train? What type of systems do they use on race cars? I will not be using the 4 wheel steer on this car.

I'm really thankfull for you guys helping me out with this so far.

I might be cutting the body down the middle and adding about 3" to the width of the car and this is due to the 6" wider rear end fromt the GTR. I know some think this project is plain stupid, but I've done enough other projects and have learned that if you plan ahead the project will turn out much nicer in the end. I see a lot of guys in the US that will install a n RB26DETT with a rear drive 5spd into a stock 240z and wind up with a car that now has double the HP and then the rest of the car needs to be upgraded to cope with the bigger HP numbers but they either don't do the upgrades or they wind up taking the car a part ten times to get it finished. Another problem is the stock 240z's has four lug, no power steering small brakes, drum rear brakes, light suspension and and open rear diff. By installing the complete drive train from the GTR I now have taken care of all of these problem and since my car should weight about 2600lbs (KG's????) and since the GTR weight is much higher than my car, the stress on the drive train installed in my car should be less then the GTR. If you guys have any more ??'s or comments please post them.

Thanks-Dan

PS In Oregon State where I live if a car is older then 25 years you can put in or change any thing on the car and the Gov. has no say in it. Thats one reason for using the 240z.

[Doctor]

I think it would only have its benefits for launching the car. You would need to spend alot of time and money balancing the vehicle after adding the extra weight at the front.

[240gtrz]

I'm going to move the battery to the rear along with the radiator, this allows me to move the intercooler back towards the engine and the and this will help even more with the weight at the front end. With just the intercooler up front there will be less hot air with out the radiator up front

Dan