Lets Talk Water Meth Injection

[blk94r33]

How about something like this:

http://www.jaycarelectronics.co.uk/productView.asp?ID=SY4086

Using the injector earth as a trigger, and also using a diode to protect the relay itself?

[Don Dada]

Well that takes care of the load that would have been placed on the inj circuit, but using this to drive a pwm solenoid means that the pump will have to be constantly on using a 12v source?

[blk94r33]

Well that takes care of the load that would have been placed on the inj circuit, but using this to drive a pwm solenoid means that the pump will have to be constantly on using a 12v source?

Yep, plan is to use a relay and a boost switch, pump receives 12 volts whenever the car hits boost and stays on until the manifold returns to or below atmospheric pressure. Same 12volt signal would send power to the solid state relay to activate the solenoid.

[blk94r33]

So ive been doing a little research on evolutionM forums and it appears the biggest worry is getting even cylinder distribution so a lot of people run multiple jets to feed each cylinder.

Which brings me to a query, I'm running a plazmaman forward facing plenum and was going to just set up a progressive system with the jet ~8-10 cm from the TB.

Do you think this would cause uneven flow with a ffp? I'm a little concerned that cylinders 1-3 will end up getting all the mist and 4-6 will "starve" if that makes sense.

Idealy I should probably have a jet in each runner but room is pretty tight and IMO its creating more potential for failure points with multiple nozzles and tees for the feed lines etc.

Thoughts?????

Also interested in this. Slowly figuring out how to make my kit work the way I want, and this was a concern. The solenoid will be run proportional to a fuel injector, same duty cycle and maximum 60hz frequency. Simply put, the engine will complete two revolutions and fire 6 times, for the WMI to inject a %15 mix once. Will this cause problems (even with the stock intake) with cylinder distribution if the nozzle is the usual 80cm before the TB? Or will the manifold, piping and TB send a roughly even amount to each cylinder as the intake valves open in sequence? I have read GTSBOY's comments, can anyone running a single nozzle system confirm that it's relatively safe?

Edited June 8, 2012 by blk94r33

[AngryRB]

havent read all the pages, but what do you guys think is better overall E85 or water meth? I like the idea of water meth so you only use it on a set boost or throttle point over the constant expense of E85.. but what about results like mid and top end power torque wise?

[blk94r33]

Good read for anyone interested in a system similar to what i'm trying to build:

http://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=43475

[Mitcho_7]

havent read all the pages, but what do you guys think is better overall E85 or water meth? I like the idea of water meth so you only use it on a set boost or throttle point over the constant expense of E85.. but what about results like mid and top end power torque wise?

From the results I have seen, wmi looks comparable to e85 for top end but if your injecting progressively based on boost you won't get the off boost increases that e85 gives.

If given the choice out of both I would go e85 without question, but wmi seems like a good solution for non e85 areas.

[jet_r31]

I'm injecting 320ml per minute atm (50/50 mix) on my stockish stagea (cooler/12psi/exhaust), switches on at 10psi

and i get no bog or hesitation either, i think i will just leave the system like that then and not worry about a progressive controller

as when i put a looser converter in

it it will "flash" past that point anyway..

cheers

darren

Edited June 23, 2012 by jet_r31

[Mitcho_7]

What size injectors are othet people using and for how much power?

Anyone using a 2 stage kit?

[jet_r31]

on my R31 i injected 700ml per minute for 460rwkw(auto)

cheers

darren

[jet_r31]

It interesting to see how much water sombre was injecting, thats the most of have heard of for that

power level, be interesting to know if he played with smaller jets to come to that conclusion or just sized up those ones and left it

cheers

darren

[shombre]

Hi Darren, someone brought your post to my attention I didn't experiment with smaller nozzles, though I had them available.

I bought my kit as a customised one put together by a US based vendor with a lot of experience using WMI on very high hp cars. He suggested these nozzle sizes, which I initially queried because they were both rather large and the inverse of what the Snow Performance FAQ seemed to recommend (i.e. large primary, small secondary compared to the recommended opposite).

In this vendor's considerable experience with very high hp (and $$) 2JZ motors, he had found that the rate of torque generation, and the corresponding spike in cylinder pressures and heat, mandated higher volumes overall and a large primary with a smaller secondary, to allow the WMI delivery to match cylinder events and maximise the benefits. I have no perceptible aberrant quench now that it's tuned, and the results speak for themselves so I'm satisfied with his reasoning

I regard the WMI mixture very much as a consumable for safety. As I'm about to go bigger again on the motor side of things, it's also nice to know that the infrastructure to support the new setup is in place.

HTH.

Edited June 24, 2012 by shombre

[Mitcho_7]

Shombre, what size injectors were you using and what was you setup running off? Boost, idc, map/maf?

[jet_r31]

Cool, least you probally won't have to change anything to lean on it harder, and you know

the ignition system copes with that much water

cheers

darren

Edited June 24, 2012 by jet_r31

[PSI086]

Is your system on straight water or water/meth Darren?

I've just got my aquamist up and running and using their jet calculator I've ended up with about 900cc of maximum flow with my 750cc injectors @ 95% idc. I'm running a 50/50 water meth mix. Obviously it won't be using all that flow as its based off idc. I'm keen to see some good results from it

[Mitcho_7]

Is your system on straight water or water/meth Darren?

I've just got my aquamist up and running and using their jet calculator I've ended up with about 900cc of maximum flow with my 750cc injectors @ 95% idc. I'm running a 50/50 water meth mix. Obviously it won't be using all that flow as its based off idc. I'm keen to see some good results from it

I dont know if im reading/interpreting what you're saying correctly, but you shouldnt need to be running at 95% IDC to get your wmi nozzle flowing at max capacity. You should be able to fiddle with the settings and say at what IDC % you want it to start injecting the water meth mix and at what IDC % you want it injecting at full capacity. It should then ramp up the flow progressively between the minimum set point to the max set point.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Mitcho_7

[jet_r31]

Is your system on straight water or water/meth Darren?

I've just got my aquamist up and running and using their jet calculator I've ended up with about 900cc of maximum flow with my 750cc injectors @ 95% idc. I'm running a 50/50 water meth mix. Obviously it won't be using all that flow as its based off idc. I'm keen to see some good results from it

water/meth in stagea, in R31 just straight water

cheers

darren

[PSI086]

I dont know if im reading/interpreting what you're saying correctly, but you shouldnt need to be running at 95% IDC to get your wmi nozzle flowing at max capacity. You should be able to fiddle with the settings and say at what IDC % you want it to start injecting the water meth mix and at what IDC % you want it injecting at full capacity. It should then ramp up the flow progressively between the minimum set point to the max set point.

I can define when it starts injecting and what rate it ramps up with idc. It can flow 900cc's at 20% idc if I want it to. Their recomendation is 15-20% water meth to fuel so obviously at a lower idc its putting less fuel in which means less water/meth is used. Out of the box its set to come on at 44% idc which is 10psi on my set up with a rate of 1:1

[blk94r33]

Is anyone here good with electronics? Specifically solid state relays?

[scotty nm35]

What would you like to know about them? You won't get full voltage out of one like a relay but they work well. I have some 40 amp ones here if you want to test a theory. Not sure how fast it will switch though.