Running E85 In My Fj20

[Gareth87]

Hi everyone,

I have a fully built FJ20 which currently makes 400HP at 17psi with a GT3040 on it. This is on BP ultimate 98 and the reason it doesn't make more power is because my injectors are flat out (only 550s)

I want to upgrade the injectors but i quite like the idea of using E85.

I have a single Bosch 044 fed from a 1.5l surge tank and 3/8ths fuel lines. As i mentioned i have a 550cc injectors which i know will be far too small. I also have a Wolf V4 running the whole show which my tuner was already having difficulty stabilising the fuel map with the 550s.

What will i need to run E85 with this engine and what can i expect as far as horsepower goes? will it come on earlier with the extra timing that you can run with E85 and is there any dramas with the fuel as far as damaging fuel lines or any of that stuff i hear.

I really don't know much about the fuel as far as real world applications go. I have only read forums and other peoples findings.

Any insight would be great,

Thanks.

[Daz]

You'll need bigger injectors, as far as fuel line I've changed all mine to braided Teflon however some people say you dont need...

[scotty nm35]

As above, changed my lines to teflon, 1000's, twin pumps etc. You may get away with the 044 depending on how much you lean on it.

I wouldn't trust the stock lines in a car that old if you use them for return, and I would keep an eye on the seam welds in the fuel tank occasionally.

[ARTZ]

Off the shelf fuel hose is fine in most applications maybe check your brand of hose online for compatibility but should be fine..get some get some 740-1000cc injectors if you can..

I think some have been having issues with Bosch 44s but just try it and see how it goes..

Remember to check your filter often as it tends to clean out the crap

[BrynDETT]

you know you want more power Haha . . Did you see what elmo said about maybe getting it at smith street ?

[Gareth87]

Yeah Bryn! of course i want more. I think 430-440hp on pump fuel would be as far as i would want to go. No safeguard for a warm day or something like that.

I just need to know what to expect and what the real world gains would be. At this stage i wold upgrade my surge tank, all rubber lines, add another Bosch 044 with a highflow cleanable filter and 1000cc injectors.

What sort of real gains have people on this forum found with the fuel. Was it difficult to tune and what surprises have people found?

I think 450hp would be pretty special for a street driven bluebird but i don't want it to be on the limit as far as the tune goes. My reasoning to change to this fuel is just to have more of a safeguard against detonation.

Can anyone else add their experiences?

G

[Guilt-Toy]

have a look in the sticky section, there is a huge thread about e85 that has been going on for years!

[discopotato03]

I personally think water or water methanol injection is easier , a lot less involved and allows you to still use pump fuel .

A .

[scotty nm35]

Methanol is bad... That shit will kill you. I wouldn't want it laying around where my kids would find it, inside the car or in the shed.

Each persons circumstances will be different depending on where the closest e85 servo is, and how old the car is. In general anything r32 or after would be fine on the stock fuel system meaning its just filling at a different pump. Whats so hard about that?

I don't understand why every thread has to end in a debate about e85 and its merits. There have been enough applications around the world to prove its power gains and resistance to det, how about we all get on board and help this fledgling industry become mainstream so there is a nozzle in every servo. Its a much better option than LPG imo and modern petrol is crap at the end of the day.

[Rolls]

Methanol is bad... That shit will kill you.

So will most other things sitting in your shed if you drink them, sure methanol is worse but surely it isn't that hard to get a lock cap or put it up high out of reach?

[bradsm87]

For that power level, a single 044 will be fine, even on E85. Unless you're running huge fuel pressure through those injectors, it can't be making more than 350hp at the wheels so it may be quite a happy dyno. That turbo is way, way too huge for that application. You could downsize turbo to a GTX2867R and make that power easily on E85 and it's be on boost WAY, WAY earlier.

I'd just leave everything as-is except for ID1000 injectors and a fuel filter just before the rail and just keen an eye on the filter.

[scotty nm35]

What will i need to run E85 with this engine and what can i expect as far as horsepower goes? will it come on earlier with the extra timing that you can run with E85?

Thanks.

^ I agree the turbo is too big if you want response, what rear housing is on it btw? You could possibly hit 350kw with e85 and the current turbo, but it wont spool any better than it does now unless you drop the turbine housing AR.

Do you have a dyno graph handy?

[BrynDETT]

For that power level, a single 044 will be fine, even on E85. Unless you're running huge fuel pressure through those injectors, it can't be making more than 350hp at the wheels so it may be quite a happy dyno. That turbo is way, way too huge for that application. You could downsize turbo to a GTX2867R and make that power easily on E85 and it's be on boost WAY, WAY earlier.

I'd just leave everything as-is except for ID1000 injectors and a fuel filter just before the rail and just keen an eye on the filter.

Can vouch for it making that power. On the same dyno as mine and alot of other mates cars... How can u say turbo is too big and he should downsize when gareth wants

MORE power.

[Gareth87]

Methanol is out of the question, it's a street car and when i want to drive it, i do. I want to know the benefits and problems of E85 in a real street application for this reason and if it's worth doing.

The engine has custom pistons, rods, head porting 291 deg in and out cams. external oil pump setup etc etc and was built by Mark Ashford. It is a drag engine for all intents and purposes and i ask about response because i know you can run a lot more timing with E85. In fact, i don't think it's a laggy engine. I have usable boost and power early enough for the street and even going for night time mountain runs it's no real drama off tight corners. (also run 4:11s) Was just curious to find out if it would come on earlier.

So at this stage, i'm looking at only minimal upgrades and a re tune.

Basically what i'm looking for is what i can expect if i did the fuel swap and tune. Scotty, another 50kw with the current setup would be excellent. Are you saying that with the same boost levels or more boost to go with that. That would be around a 20% gain by just switching fuel which is what i have read.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Gareth87

[zebra]

No gain by just switching fuel

More boost and timing will be needed to make more power

You will often find it will be a little laggier with E85 or it might go the otherway, each engine/tuner seems to report different results

Go E85 and wind 28psi into the thing and you will love it

[scotty nm35]

Personally I would like boost to hit no later than 4k which a smaller rear may help you to, with e85 the exhaust temps wont be as high for the same boost, so you can get away with more pressure in the manifold imo. If you are happy with the tune the way it is and just want power gains then just drop the injectors in and see what it can do.

Your tuner will be able to lean on the boost and see where it stops gaining torque, who are you taking it to?

[rob82]

Is the engine currently knock limited on pump fuel? If so then yes you will gain power just by putting the fuel in and adding timing. Its hard to predict gains without seeing the tune.

[Mick_o]

No gain by switching fuel alone?!! I picked up almost 40rwkw by swapping fuel alone with 4-5psi less boost! I didnt notice any turbo response gains in my case but the midrange power increase is epic and off boost driving feels noticebly more rapid with more torque plus the sweet smell and lack of soot coming outta the back end are all good things. But i definately agree with zeeb run E85 and wind the boost into it and love it! [quoe name=zebra' timestamp='1333186279' post='6298115]

No gain by just switching fuel

More boost and timing will be needed to make more power

You will often find it will be a little laggier with E85 or it might go the otherway, each engine/tuner seems to report different results

Go E85 and wind 28psi into the thing and you will love it

[Mick_o]

+1 i agree smaller housings can be ran on E85 without too much restriction on a T3 also as long as its externally gated.. Would maybe few kw off the final number matter too much if boost was on much earlier? Personally I would like boost to hit no later than 4k which a smaller rear may help you to, with e85 the exhaust temps wont be as high for the same boost, so you can get away with more pressure in the manifold imo. If you are happy with the tune the way it is and just want power gains then just drop the injectors in and see what it can do.

Your tuner will be able to lean on the boost and see where it stops gaining torque, who are you taking it to?

[Scott Black]

No gain by switching fuel alone?!! I picked up almost 40rwkw by swapping fuel alone with 4-5psi less boost! I didnt notice any turbo response gains in my case but the midrange power increase is epic and off boost driving feels noticebly more rapid with more torque plus the sweet smell and lack of soot coming outta the back end are all good things. But i definately agree with zeeb run E85 and wind the boost into it and love it! [quoe name=zebra' timestamp='1333186279' post='6298115]

No gain by just switching fuel

More boost and timing will be needed to make more power

You will often find it will be a little laggier with E85 or it might go the otherway, each engine/tuner seems to report different results

Go E85 and wind 28psi into the thing and you will love it

so you went from 98 to e85 without tuning or changing anything else and gained 40rwkw? i dont think so, mainly because if you tried this the car wouldnt run.

if you swapped fuels then tuned it, then yes you will get a gain, and thats what the original poster said when he said boost or timing will be required to make more power.