Car Wont Start..help!

[Japav]

went to nearby suburb for house inspection, battery came flat when leaving from house, and pulled out my jumpstarter and got it working,

20min on the road with no problem,

after we inspect the first house and ready for next one, problem started.....its a v35gt-8

car wont start......

so i pull out jumpstarter again and still wont start, battery seem to be okay even got someone else's car to help me to jump start just in case my jumpstarter is running flat too,

that still wont start,

its making fast clicking noise when i try to start the engine, my first though will be engine starter...

but the guy from other car try to help me with jump start says its timing belt as he had the same issue last month..

worst thing happens at the worst time....its holy weekend and no mechanics until tuesday...

i forgot to run self ECU diag while i was there...

anyone else had the similar issue? or any idea what's the $$$ tag i m look on fixing this?

cheers

[itpesaf]

i would say your battery is dead and you need a new one. Upon buying a new one, if the problem persists it might be your alternator not being able to charge the battery. Either way get a voltmeter and check your battery - should be around 12volts turned off and 14 whilst the car is turned on.

[Vimana]

the sound you are hearing is called a machine gunning starter motor. happens when your battery is flat and the jump starter is not good enough. the second point is why do you have a flat battery? you must have an alternator problem causing this.

ps im an auto electrician, not a forum guesser.

[Japav]

the sound you are hearing is called a machine gunning starter motor. happens when your battery is flat and the jump starter is not good enough. the second point is why do you have a flat battery? you must have an alternator problem causing this.

ps im an auto electrician, not a forum guesser.

you're right!! it does sound like machine gun....

just wonder as for dead battery....does still make panel lights and all other electrical component to work still??

if so I'll definitely go and get new battery now before i call tow truck and get it in for workshop...

my BEST guess to dead battery = i havent replace it yet since i got the car about 4 years ago......

Edited April 7, 2012 by Japav

[Vimana]

your battery being dead is only an after effect of a faulty alternator. yes you might need a new battery now, but if your alternator is not working your new battery will be dead in about 30 mins of driving.

dash board lights and other small things like that will still work with a battery that wont start a car becauae starting a car takes 100 times more current than little dash lights.

if you were in my workshop i would suspect a faulty alternator number 1. number 2 put your battery on charge and see if it tests ok. if not, replace it.

[sonicii]

^^ as they said, replace the battery, and get the alternator checked.. The symptoms don't necessarily mean your alternator is dead, the battery can fail and not accept a charge from a good alternator which would result in the same symptoms you are seeing. In fact, since you were able to drive for 20mins with no issues after the first jump start, suggests your alternator may be ok..

The guy who tried to tell you it is a broken timing belt, has no idea.. espeically given your car doesn't have a timing belt..

[Japav]

many thx for the inputs,

just got my self a new battery, Century NS60LS,

hopefully i dont need tow truck on Tuesday

[..350GT8..]

A old faulty battery can also cause same prob.. Not necessarily a bad alternator.. Otherwise u would of noticed your battery light on the dash come whilst driving before hand..

[Japav]

just went to fit the battery in my car....yes at 2am....

looks like the old dead battery wont hold any charges or discharges so quickly, noticed when i got there and panel lights only came up about 20% of the normal brightness

and whoolaa~~car starts smoothly, started just like when i pick up the car from dealer~

much appreciated for all you guys' feedback.

still gonna bring the car just for general check up anyway on tuesday, at least i saved couple hundreds for towing plus the risks for parking the car off street in the middle of no where

Edited April 7, 2012 by Japav

[kvnz88]

Glad it sorted out well, btw i need to borrow your tool kit...need to install mine too lol

[PN-Mad]

A Battery can catastrophically fail- IE plates touch each other and short itself out. Has happened to me- car starts fine- drives 5 mins stop for fuel, no battery power whatsoever. Then even if you plug a charger into it, it will not transfer power.

I would forget about the alternator as the "auto electrician" has suggested, because you'll have a dash battery light come on if the alternator fails.

ps. I'm a forum guesser, that just happens to know quite a bit of shit. The auto electrician just wants to charge you $700 for a new alternator.

[sonicii]

^^ The alternator's regulator can fail and not show a 'battery' light on the dash.. I have had 2 alternators fail like that.. I have also had a 1 diode short in the diode pack, which allowed it to generate enough power so a battery light didn't show, but not enough to charge the battery.. made a horrible howl though..

In the OPs case, I think the alternator will be ok, you can check it yourself if you have a multimeter, or just take it to a one of the battery outlets.. many of them will do a free test.

[Vimana]

A Battery can catastrophically fail- IE plates touch each other and short itself out. Has happened to me- car starts fine- drives 5 mins stop for fuel, no battery power whatsoever. Then even if you plug a charger into it, it will not transfer power.

I would forget about the alternator as the "auto electrician" has suggested, because you'll have a dash battery light come on if the alternator fails.

ps. I'm a forum guesser, that just happens to know quite a bit of shit. The auto electrician just wants to charge you $700 for a new alternator.

If you had a battery that some how had its plates short.... you would know about it. I don't think ive ever seen this in my 15 years but i'm sure it has happened to you.

Your bit about the dash battery light comes on if your alternator fails is classic. Yes it can come on, but that's only if there is a potential difference between the bulb and the output of the regulator. And the most common failure of an alternator is worn brushes or diode fault, especially on better brands such as whats in these cars. And guess what, this will not bring on the battery warning light because its open circuit. Do you check to make sure your battery light illuminates every time you start the car? Not many people do, so how would you or the OP know that the alternator is not faulty in the way i have described above.

Yes you are a forum guesser, you have just demonstrated it a few times in one post. And no i don't sell alternators but i have diagnosed many when i worked for a general auto electrical shop who does them.... I now manage a shop who do engine management, fuel injection and air conditioning not alternators.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Vimana

[PN-Mad]

Good advice then. I've had the worn brushes before on a 260k km car. Never had a diode or regulator fault.

My point is that the infomation in these fourms is usually much more accurate than what an average workshop will actually give you. Especially so with the Stageas. So I take this "fourm guesser" comment with a grain of salt, knowing that industry has got it wrong time and time again with these cars- You just have to ask any GT-8 owner that has had their gearbox oil changed by a mechanic only to find out they used dextron III. There are so many bad stories.

I only trust myself, and a couple of other people to touch my car.

So saying your just in the industry doesn't fill a lot of us with confidence- not a shot at you yourself, but you have to fight long and hard (and spend a lot of money) to find a good mechanic in the import scene. If you haven't found that yet, then this fourm is the best source of infomation. Did OP get his problem fixed? Yep- through the fourm.

[sonicii]

Yes it can come on, but that's only if there is a potential difference between the bulb and the output of the regulator. And the most common failure of an alternator is worn brushes or diode fault, especially on better brands such as whats in these cars. And guess what, this will not bring on the battery warning light because its open circuit.

Not exactly, maybe 30 years ago, but these days alternators generally use electronic regulators. These regulators have their own +12V supply (from the battery) and Gnd and can drive the battery light/LED separatly and can trigger the light even if the brushes wear out and fail to make contact. However a failed regulator and a few other faults can cause no or reduced alternator output and not trigger a battery light.

[Vimana]

There is only a few cars with electronically controlled warning lights currently. Most will still not illuminate the warning light with open circuit brushes. Most of the electronic regulators what we are both referring to still require brushes to contact the slip ring in order to trigger the warning light. Its an old technology but it doesn't need to be improved upon.

An example where bosch tried to make it better is the newer commodores where the ECU controls the alternators field and warning light.... this resulted in many cars being falsely fitted with new alternators when the real fix was a firmware upgrade at the dealer to overcome real world conditions.

[sonicii]

Ok.. maybe there are a few old tech alternators around.. the Alternator from my old R31 Skyline (made 25 years ago), was fully electronic.. I had a block diagram of the regulator module around somewhere, and I know it does trigger a battery light with warn brushes, because I sold it to a friend and helped him fix it a few years later.. I would have thought they would have all gone that way by now..

[Japav]

just wonder, would those battery/alternator tester good for simply self diagnostics?

wondering if something like this would save me workshop checkup?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12-Volt-LED-Battery-Alternator-Tester-Cars-Trucks-Tuner-Power-Check-Up-/290627052562?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item43aab8e412

[sonicii]

should be ok for a basic test.. it will tell you if your alternator is actually working. The real tests done at a workshop usually do a discharge test on the battery, but since you have a new battery, you won't need this done.

[ayk]

On 4/7/2012 at 2:57 PM, Vimana said:

the sound you are hearing is called a machine gunning starter motor. happens when your battery is flat and the jump starter is not good enough. the second point is why do you have a flat battery? you must have an alternator problem causing this.

ps im an auto electrician, not a forum guesser.

hi there i am new here and not sure how send you a private mail .  i have situation that is making me panic.   i have skyline gt350 v36 

and time to time when i hold brake and push button to start the car , it show lights on dash board than dies fully ... and after that no electrical component worked ( lights , buttons for closing doors , basically all electrical  stops working ) the car does not have key hall for starting and also after few minutes when i try again , it starts as nothing happen ... now this been happening every week once or twice ... i checked the battery ( with tools ) and indicated that the battery is working fine ... i replaced key battery too, but the problem still there . can you help with any advice please ?