Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hey guys,

Talking with some mates yesterday with setups fairly close to mine about running twin fuel rails and that got me thinking; Other than Nismo (which Im sure years ago was the number one choice before lots of fabricators outside Japan started making parts for these engines), who makes a plenum with stock ITB and provisions for a secondary fuel rail?

Before anyone asks, yes i know one rail can flow a cubic shitload of fuel, it's about injector sizing more than the size of the actual rail.

Also please no one say "upgrade to ID2000's" - we have them already.

aaaaaaaaaaaand go!

Cheers

Edit: If anyone has successfully modified their stock RB26 plenum to accept a second rail, I'd love to see pictures/details if possible. Thanks!

I did two plenums last month which went onto engines headed for NZ.

They were factory r33 plenums, had the plenum soda blasted and welded the new injector bosses onto the underside at the angle the customer asked for ( customer is a fairly large performance engine shop)

Injector bosses are available from load of places now in all sorts of sizes and lengths.

Posting for updates

( i was thinking of this idea so one fuel rail and tank for e85/flex and one for 98)

That would be WAY too complicated.

Get one of these;

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml

Here's Pauls results using one;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/384932-new-rb-parts-with-results/page__view__findpost__p__6139894

Here's Daniel/SS8 Gohan's results and a more in depth look at how it works;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/366722-e8598-flex-fuel-mission-complete-thanks-to-chequered-tuning/page__view__findpost__p__5849768

If you want a couple to stuff around with I have 24 of the short bosses left.

EFI solutions also do them and I THINK steve at JNT in wollongong may have some as well

there is some pictures of them in the online catolouge.

The guys in NZ wanted a second bank to experiment with a 98pump/100% ethanol injection system where they could actually atomise their own ethanol fuel mixture ratio.

Im doing two separate tanks for them to sit where the Factory R33 saddle tanks sits under the back seat.

Who knows why or if it will work but they pay their invoices so im happy to fabricate their stupid ideas.

If you want a couple to stuff around with I have 24 of the short bosses left.

EFI solutions also do them and I THINK steve at JNT in wollongong may have some as well

there is some pictures of them in the online catolouge.

The guys in NZ wanted a second bank to experiment with a 98pump/100% ethanol injection system where they could actually atomise their own ethanol fuel mixture ratio.

Im doing two separate tanks for them to sit where the Factory R33 saddle tanks sits under the back seat.

Who knows why or if it will work but they pay their invoices so im happy to fabricate their stupid ideas.

Yes that would be good thanks, send me the details and i'll pop out during the week.

No idea why those people would be doing that, if you're at the track use a jerry can of ethanol, then use pump fuel for the trip home and if not using an ethanol sensor have a laptop and two tunes. Having two tanks just seems silly, but yeah money is money.

I'm not doing it for any reason like that though, mine is quite an obvious one which is injectors getting close to maxed and they're the biggest available from Injector Dynamics (don't want to run any other brand, very happy with these), so with more power on the way something has to be done

Yes that would be good thanks, send me the details and i'll pop out during the week.

No idea why those people would be doing that, if you're at the track use a jerry can of ethanol, then use pump fuel for the trip home and if not using an ethanol sensor have a laptop and two tunes. Having two tanks just seems silly, but yeah money is money.

I'm not doing it for any reason like that though, mine is quite an obvious one which is injectors getting close to maxed and they're the biggest available from Injector Dynamics (don't want to run any other brand, very happy with these), so with more power on the way something has to be done

Wow... what kind of numbers are you seeing? That's a fair lot of fuel your pumping.

I'm a little woried now :-( PM if you don't want to throw it all out in this thread. I'll be pushing 2bar from two modified td06's with e85... hope I don't run out of injector! (i aslo have ID2000's)

Greddy intake mani's have provisions for secondary injectors. Have a look at the old willall r32 gtr drag car.

... I have nitrous injectors instead :-)

Cheers

Justin

I spose it depends on how your tuner tunes.

I get tuned by the same guy as Steveo, running ID 2000's and i'm sitting at 71% DC to make 430 RWKW. Too rich? Possibly? Do we care? Not in the slightest.

Bumping up the pressure might be a way around this, but then you stress the pumps more.

I spose it depends on how your tuner tunes.

I get tuned by the same guy as Steveo, running ID 2000's and i'm sitting at 71% DC to make 430 RWKW. Too rich? Possibly? Do we care? Not in the slightest.

Bumping up the pressure might be a way around this, but then you stress the pumps more.

Why would you want to overfuel intentionally? Using a high pressure pump at a lower pressure isn't ideal either.

Why would you want to overfuel intentionally? Using a high pressure pump at a lower pressure isn't ideal either.

Well my AFR's are not excessively rich. Mid 11's (petrol figures for ease of comparison).

I don't know? :/

Why would you want to overfuel intentionally? Using a high pressure pump at a lower pressure isn't ideal either.

There is something seriously wrong there. On a shite engine with a BSFC of say 0.55, ID2000, 43psi fuel pressure and 71% duty you should be able to make 1600hp on pump fuel. Factor in that E85 uses say 30-40% more fuel then your should have at least 0.6*1600 = 960hp. Say you have the worlds worst dyno or converter so take another 200hp to get wheel hp you should be in the vacinity of 760rwhp which leaves you about 130rwkw short of where you should be with that type of fuel usage.

If the AFR's are what you said then you should fire your engine builder becasue that is a really poor conversion of fuel/air mix into hp!

The majority of engines that I've tuned have all come in around 28% extra fuelling required when converting to e85 from pump. Mind you theses engine are all knock limited which will make a substantial difference.

Wow... what kind of numbers are you seeing? That's a fair lot of fuel your pumping.

I'm a little woried now :-( PM if you don't want to throw it all out in this thread. I'll be pushing 2bar from two modified td06's with e85... hope I don't run out of injector! (i aslo have ID2000's)

Greddy intake mani's have provisions for secondary injectors. Have a look at the old willall r32 gtr drag car.

... I have nitrous injectors instead :-)

Cheers

Justin

PM Sent

lol no nitrous here!

Must be some big numbers on the way. I made 475rwkw thru a auto with the ID1000s running higher fuel pressure and am pretty sure my tuners track car made 550+rwkw on the 1000s also

Thats the plan :)

It's hard to compare injector sizes and rwkw outcomes, engine size plays a part of course. I'm not using a 2.6 here so I ignore anything that size, reason being I converted to E85 years ago when it had just came out and getting it was hard, there wasn't much information around but 1000's seemed to be ok (had 700's) using the "add 30%" theory that seems so popular when it comes to E85. Put the car on the dyno, drained the tank of pump 98 and put the new fuel in, instantly maxed 1000's on E85 to make 403rwkw (i forget what boost pressure sorry it was a long time ago).

It's all well and good to have the theory, but instead I have just tried it for myself and seen the outcome as my setup has been changing over the years. From memory it was something in the high 40's as a percentage change between the fuels for my car - everyone's different though so I just pay attention to my own :)

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I don't like "actual computers" for in car use. They take time to boot up, have OS annoyances, and so on. Arduinos etc are ready to go a few seconds after power on, don't mind being agressively powere cycled, because everything is non-volatile, don't mind being shaken and stirred.
    • As Fred would tell us, it's all about interpreting the rules. It's not a water sprayer, it's a water mister... But everything else you've said, 100%! Even a raspberry Pi would be great, use HDMI out for a display, and add a raspberry Pi CANBus hat to read values out from the ECU.
    • Being a race car, and being in the era of the Arduino, one would think it would take little effort to build a controller to do the spraying based on a real physical measurment. Waaaaay back in the dim dark AS days, JE "designed" (as in, he had help) a microcontroller based intercooler spray system. It watched the difference between a temp sensor stuck on the core and one in the free air in front of the cooler, and if the temperature difference exceeded a (settable) threshold, it would activate the sprays. Thus, it only ran water when there was an actual need for water. If you stop to think about the actual physical things that are going on in that stack of coolers, there's probably at least a couple of triggering conditions one could come up with, and one could probably even run one pump with more than one solenoid valve, to allow water to be placed where it is needed, or at all points at once (if it is needed at all points). We're in the age of science baby. But.... I suspect that intercooler water sprays are on the forbidden list in most circuit classes, no? So only good for Targa type stuff?
    • I'll just leave this with, holy shit, those cars at work are awesome, and this will look wicked!
    • Could you modify this duct so instead it pushes the extra air through the radiator too and not down and out? For temps, I know it's not the greatest idea, but as a bit of a last resort, you could use a very intermittent misting spray onto the front of the coolers/rad. You don't want to be soaking them such that water is dripping off, but a small most on/off so that the water evaporates. That point of it constantly evaporating, rather than being soaked in water, will pull a LOT of heat out of the cooler. I'm literally thinking just the little mist sprayers for a garden from Bunnings. Being in a low humidity climate it will help even more! The other trick if you want to be ghetto is some shade cloth hung in the opening, and keep it wet. Pretty much now it's acting like an evap cooler on a house, but cooling the air you need to use to cool the radiator...   On a topic to think about too though, when air enters through the bumper, is it all nicely ducted from the edges of that opening back at a nice angle, or is it like most cars, and the edge of the opening just stops, and suddenly it's wayyy wider behind that? If it does the later, get it shrouded out at nice angles. When that opening changes too rapidly, it can actually cause a high pressure zone between the front bar and radiator, and limit air flow into that area, which means less air for cooling, as it effectively stalls the air, AND adds to drag...
×
×
  • Create New...