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Rb26 Plenum Options For Twin Fuel Rails

N1GTR

By N1GTR,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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N1GTR Grand Master

N1GTR

Posted
Posted

Hey guys,

Talking with some mates yesterday with setups fairly close to mine about running twin fuel rails and that got me thinking; Other than Nismo (which Im sure years ago was the number one choice before lots of fabricators outside Japan started making parts for these engines), who makes a plenum with stock ITB and provisions for a secondary fuel rail?

Before anyone asks, yes i know one rail can flow a cubic shitload of fuel, it's about injector sizing more than the size of the actual rail.

Also please no one say "upgrade to ID2000's" - we have them already.

aaaaaaaaaaaand go!

Cheers

Edit: If anyone has successfully modified their stock RB26 plenum to accept a second rail, I'd love to see pictures/details if possible. Thanks!

Risking Grand Master

Risking

Posted
Posted

I did two plenums last month which went onto engines headed for NZ.

They were factory r33 plenums, had the plenum soda blasted and welded the new injector bosses onto the underside at the angle the customer asked for ( customer is a fairly large performance engine shop)

Injector bosses are available from load of places now in all sorts of sizes and lengths.

N1GTR Grand Master

N1GTR

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  • Author
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Posting for updates

( i was thinking of this idea so one fuel rail and tank for e85/flex and one for 98)

That would be WAY too complicated.

Get one of these;

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml

Here's Pauls results using one;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/384932-new-rb-parts-with-results/page__view__findpost__p__6139894

Here's Daniel/SS8 Gohan's results and a more in depth look at how it works;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/366722-e8598-flex-fuel-mission-complete-thanks-to-chequered-tuning/page__view__findpost__p__5849768

Risking Grand Master

Risking

Posted
Posted

If you want a couple to stuff around with I have 24 of the short bosses left.

EFI solutions also do them and I THINK steve at JNT in wollongong may have some as well

there is some pictures of them in the online catolouge.

The guys in NZ wanted a second bank to experiment with a 98pump/100% ethanol injection system where they could actually atomise their own ethanol fuel mixture ratio.

Im doing two separate tanks for them to sit where the Factory R33 saddle tanks sits under the back seat.

Who knows why or if it will work but they pay their invoices so im happy to fabricate their stupid ideas.

N1GTR Grand Master

N1GTR

Posted
  • Author
Posted

If you want a couple to stuff around with I have 24 of the short bosses left.

EFI solutions also do them and I THINK steve at JNT in wollongong may have some as well

there is some pictures of them in the online catolouge.

The guys in NZ wanted a second bank to experiment with a 98pump/100% ethanol injection system where they could actually atomise their own ethanol fuel mixture ratio.

Im doing two separate tanks for them to sit where the Factory R33 saddle tanks sits under the back seat.

Who knows why or if it will work but they pay their invoices so im happy to fabricate their stupid ideas.

Yes that would be good thanks, send me the details and i'll pop out during the week.

No idea why those people would be doing that, if you're at the track use a jerry can of ethanol, then use pump fuel for the trip home and if not using an ethanol sensor have a laptop and two tunes. Having two tanks just seems silly, but yeah money is money.

I'm not doing it for any reason like that though, mine is quite an obvious one which is injectors getting close to maxed and they're the biggest available from Injector Dynamics (don't want to run any other brand, very happy with these), so with more power on the way something has to be done

XRATED Veteran

XRATED

Posted
Posted

Yes that would be good thanks, send me the details and i'll pop out during the week.

No idea why those people would be doing that, if you're at the track use a jerry can of ethanol, then use pump fuel for the trip home and if not using an ethanol sensor have a laptop and two tunes. Having two tanks just seems silly, but yeah money is money.

I'm not doing it for any reason like that though, mine is quite an obvious one which is injectors getting close to maxed and they're the biggest available from Injector Dynamics (don't want to run any other brand, very happy with these), so with more power on the way something has to be done

Wow... what kind of numbers are you seeing? That's a fair lot of fuel your pumping.

I'm a little woried now :-( PM if you don't want to throw it all out in this thread. I'll be pushing 2bar from two modified td06's with e85... hope I don't run out of injector! (i aslo have ID2000's)

Greddy intake mani's have provisions for secondary injectors. Have a look at the old willall r32 gtr drag car.

... I have nitrous injectors instead :-)

Cheers

Justin

Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

Posted
Posted

I spose it depends on how your tuner tunes.

I get tuned by the same guy as Steveo, running ID 2000's and i'm sitting at 71% DC to make 430 RWKW. Too rich? Possibly? Do we care? Not in the slightest.

Bumping up the pressure might be a way around this, but then you stress the pumps more.

bigmikespec Veteran

bigmikespec

Posted
Posted

I spose it depends on how your tuner tunes.

I get tuned by the same guy as Steveo, running ID 2000's and i'm sitting at 71% DC to make 430 RWKW. Too rich? Possibly? Do we care? Not in the slightest.

Bumping up the pressure might be a way around this, but then you stress the pumps more.

Why would you want to overfuel intentionally? Using a high pressure pump at a lower pressure isn't ideal either.

Piggaz Grand Master

Piggaz

Posted
Posted

Why would you want to overfuel intentionally? Using a high pressure pump at a lower pressure isn't ideal either.

Well my AFR's are not excessively rich. Mid 11's (petrol figures for ease of comparison).

I don't know? :/

rob82 Mentor

rob82

Posted
Posted

Why would you want to overfuel intentionally? Using a high pressure pump at a lower pressure isn't ideal either.

There is something seriously wrong there. On a shite engine with a BSFC of say 0.55, ID2000, 43psi fuel pressure and 71% duty you should be able to make 1600hp on pump fuel. Factor in that E85 uses say 30-40% more fuel then your should have at least 0.6*1600 = 960hp. Say you have the worlds worst dyno or converter so take another 200hp to get wheel hp you should be in the vacinity of 760rwhp which leaves you about 130rwkw short of where you should be with that type of fuel usage.

If the AFR's are what you said then you should fire your engine builder becasue that is a really poor conversion of fuel/air mix into hp!

The majority of engines that I've tuned have all come in around 28% extra fuelling required when converting to e85 from pump. Mind you theses engine are all knock limited which will make a substantial difference.

N1GTR Grand Master

N1GTR

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Wow... what kind of numbers are you seeing? That's a fair lot of fuel your pumping.

I'm a little woried now :-( PM if you don't want to throw it all out in this thread. I'll be pushing 2bar from two modified td06's with e85... hope I don't run out of injector! (i aslo have ID2000's)

Greddy intake mani's have provisions for secondary injectors. Have a look at the old willall r32 gtr drag car.

... I have nitrous injectors instead :-)

Cheers

Justin

PM Sent

lol no nitrous here!

N1GTR Grand Master

N1GTR

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Must be some big numbers on the way. I made 475rwkw thru a auto with the ID1000s running higher fuel pressure and am pretty sure my tuners track car made 550+rwkw on the 1000s also

Thats the plan :)

It's hard to compare injector sizes and rwkw outcomes, engine size plays a part of course. I'm not using a 2.6 here so I ignore anything that size, reason being I converted to E85 years ago when it had just came out and getting it was hard, there wasn't much information around but 1000's seemed to be ok (had 700's) using the "add 30%" theory that seems so popular when it comes to E85. Put the car on the dyno, drained the tank of pump 98 and put the new fuel in, instantly maxed 1000's on E85 to make 403rwkw (i forget what boost pressure sorry it was a long time ago).

It's all well and good to have the theory, but instead I have just tried it for myself and seen the outcome as my setup has been changing over the years. From memory it was something in the high 40's as a percentage change between the fuels for my car - everyone's different though so I just pay attention to my own :)

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