To Rebuild... Or Not To Rebuild?

[OzzySkyline07]

Can anyone please help me with my decision to Rebuild or not to Rebuild?

My 93 gtst has just done a bearing and I have neen told to just rebuild the whole engine with a slightly modified rebuild. It has been roughly quoted at about 6 grand to do....

RB23DET

-Remove and refit engine $800

-Full Nissan Gasket and seal kit $440

-Multi layer steel head gasket $190

-Conrod and Main bearings $295

-RB26DETT GTR Oil pump $220

-Timing belt kit, tensioner and idler bearing $180

-Nissan water pump $110

-RB26DETT crankshaft-(Second hand) $650

-RB26DETT conrods $250

-Custom pistons and matching rings $450

-Machining:

Chemically clean all engine parts

Race balance and blueprint rotating assembly

Recondition 24 valve cylinder head

3 angle valve seats

Torque plate bore and hone 6 cylinder

Machine all surfaces

Assemble complete long engine $1950

-Oils, coolant, filters, bed piston rings in on Dyno $280

If you were to go ahead with the RB23DET I would also recommend an RB25DET turbocharger, I can do one for you $300. and a front mount intercooler.

Total for the RB23DET would be roughly $5850

My question is.... Do I spend the money on my gtst which I love and ive had for about 8 years as a daily driver. Or try and sell it as is and upgrade to a GTR. But it all comes down to money!!! I no im not gunna make or get my money back from my gtst with or without the rebuild, but its stil a cheaper alternitive than buying a GTR.

I would appreciate any thoughts at all on my dilemma.

Cheers, Trav.

[DVSTRK]

maybe look into a running rb25 or rb26 and drop it in the way it is...

[75coupe]

What do you want from your car?

Is it a daily or a Sunday car?

Do you go to the track or is it a streeter?

How much power do you want/need?

Could always get a secondhand rb20 and sell and then get an r33 gtr but they arnt young anymore and will probably break something more expensive on that too...

[Bsa]

Seeming you have had the car for so long would be a shame to sell it broken rb20 can be bought cheap and they are fairly solid little things then if you still want a gtr sell it

[Daz]

Could you drop in a 26?

[DVS JEZ]

Rb26 conversion is very straighforward. However these engine have there issue's aswell as the stock turbo's needing to be upgraded which adds alot of $$$

My suggestion

2nd hand good condition RB20 $1300ish

2nd hand hks 2530 turbo $900 ish

NIStune ecu $1000-1100ish supplied fitted and tuned

Upgraded injectors $600 ish

Z32 AFM $150-350ish

Upgraded clutch if u havent already $600ish

Engine removal and install $800-1000ish

This setup will make 220ish kw and is a very fast setup for an rb20.

Ish

[KiwiRS4T]

If you are happy to keep your car and it is generally in good nick and you have confidence in the abilities of the person giving you the quote it doesn't seem a bad option - it should give you reliable motoring for a few more years.

Buying a second hand motor is a gamble which may or may not work out.

Buying a gtr would be nice but but you wouldn't get that much for your car with a dud motor so a large capital outlay and then you will need a few more thousands to spend on it.

Mind you if you don't have any kind of aftermarket ecu a Nistune should be added to your original quote.

[Roy]

I have a wrecker RB20 motor in my car running a TD06-20G. I have run it for 60,000kms and the last 7 years at generally 18-22psi and 235-275rwkws. Most of the kms are going to/from the track and actually driving it on the track.

My take is that the RB20 is soooo over engineered in std spec that even a high km wrecker motor will be a good thing if you give it a wise going over when you install it. When you start leaning on them you need to make sure your tune and fluids are up to it and you will be fine with a wrecker motor.

I am in the position that in the next few weeks I am going to spray my engine bay so on the weekend I went to a motorkhana and ran a 9,300rpm rev limit and 9,600rpm rev limit.. It sounded wild, and span up the tyres like a champion with plenty of limiter bashing. All whilst making about 260rwkws. I was half hoping the engine would pop so when it comes out that I could put it back into a freshly sprayed engine bay with all my RB24 bits...but its still running 100% reliable and drove me to work yesterday morning!

Teh below pics is from drifting a bend and section of straight blazing 3rd gear on the 9,600rpm limiter before braking to stop in the finishing gate. The site of smoke behind me was hilarious....a std motor can take almost anything you can sensibly throw at it. The problem is it wont be responsive and have to give it a hard time; which incidentally they seem to like. So my strongest advise is buy a short wrecker engine with warranty and get it back on the road and just have fun blasting around in it. After this weekend I am more convinced than ever that if you arent worried about being the fastest, just having the most fun...then rape the RB20 with close to impunity Your money is far better spent on a nice turbo upgrade to a wrecker RB20

[OzzySkyline07]

Cheers heaps guys! I have decided to go ahead with the RB23DET rebuild as I think its probably the best way to go, performance and money wise. I already have a ECU in it but its an old one 'HKS PFC F-CON'. It came with the car but i dont no how tuneable it will be? The workshop said they are putting a chip into it for now until i can afford a better ECU. Im getting the rebuild done at 'CREATD Motorsport' in Campbellfield Vic. They sound really solid and their workshop and cars speak for themselves!!!

Roughly with the rebuild, rb25det turbo and front mount cooler. What power figures can i expect? And what size is the rb25det turbo?

Thanx again, I really appriciate the info!!!

[Roy]

Mate, stop them ASAP! Seriously. You are spending thousands on an engine to only put a 200rwkws turbo on. They are ok as a cheap get out of jail turbo that close to bolt on....but they dont perform. I have seen R33 turbos on RB20s that offer barely an improvement at 4,000rpm compared to my big, laggy truck, err I mean Trust turbo.

Get a healthy RB20 motor put in and get a 2530 Kai or similar 350-400hp turbo put on. You will make 30-40rwkws more then you will with the RB23 and will be far cheaper to boot. I am about to put a new billet turbo on my car and run E85 which will see the figure be somewhere between 290-320rwkws...all on a std motor which I expect it will be fine with. At 230rwkws a std motor will alst forever and for less then 4k you can have a motor, tunable ECU, good turbo upgrade etc

[Cowboy1600]

Why not grab a 30 block and 25 head and do a 2530? A freshen up of the bottom end + mods to the head would only be a couple grand, assuming the cranks, slugs, and bores are fine.

All you'd need is a turbo (grab a stocko s/h Neo turbo) and injectors (stocko RB25s) and you'll have a lazy and bullet proof 200+rwkw with plenty of scope for big HP later. I reckon you could do that for under $6k.

[Josh_TypeX]

You were running a 9600rpm rev limit on the weekend Roy? I should have had a better listen!

[OzzySkyline07]

Thats a good point Roy!!! But I am really limited atm by my 6grand budget ( What is the 2530 Kai from and will it bolt straight on? CREATD said they didnt want to touch anything cheap in regards to turbos like MONSTER turbos etc... How much do you think they would sell for? Or can you think of any other reasonably priced straight bolt on turbos?

[DVS JEZ]

My suggestion

2nd hand good condition RB20 $1300ish

2nd hand hks 2530 turbo $900 ish

NIStune ecu $1000-1100ish supplied fitted and tuned

Upgraded injectors $600 ish

Z32 AFM $150-350ish

Upgraded clutch if u havent already $600ish

Engine removal and install $800-1000ish

This setup will make 220ish kw and is a very fast setup for an rb20.

Ish

Close to ur budget

[Bsa]

Rb20s are under rated they are a wicked little motor you could and a 20 installed run stock tune 25 turbo and just drive it for around 3 to 3.5k maybe less keeps money in your pocket for if you want to build the rb23

[Manuel Kasko]

Never even heard of an rb23

I'm intrigued and obviously still noob

[Roy]

You were running a 9600rpm rev limit on the weekend Roy? I should have had a better listen!

Yep...I was kacking myself.

What mods do you run at the moment? Based on your engine build list I am guessing you have I/C, filter exhaust, ebc etc? Since you are in Vic I would speak to the likes of EKW and get a quote for a short motor. I paid $600 for mine.

I am guessing your remove and replace is a little too cheap. I would expect up around are up for around $1500-2000 for remove and replacing your engine, this I expect would include AC re-gassing, machining fly wheel, changing water pump, timing belt, idler bearings etc. Could be cheaper but do your homework.

From there I would consider some GTR injectors that have been flow tested, a Z32 AFM, a Power Fc/Nistune (PFc hard to find but all RB20 owners are tight asess and don't want to pay money for ECUs so can get them for $1000-1200)

I would speak to various hi-flow turbo shops like Hypergear, Billet, GCG, ATP and speak to them and your tuner about the power you are after and the response you are chasing. This will all bolt on to std manifold with some minor changes to dump and inlet etc.

http://www.billetturbochargers.com/Turbo_rebuilds_and_hiflows.ews

http://www.atpturbo.com.au/

http://www.digi-hardware.com/rb25t3hiflow.html

http://gcg.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=34&Itemid=101&TreeId=162

I think for less money you can end up with more power with as good or acceptable response by going std engine with a well spec'd hi-flow turbo, or used HKS 2530. But, don't take my word for it ask around and get some quotes from other workshops that friends have used. Relying on referrals from forums is fought with danger as you cant really say anything bad about workshops.....NOT that I am hinting CREATD are anything but a credible shop but that is just one opinion and option. Hell, speak to another workshop and you may find a customer has just removed an engine and turbo setup due to a major upgrade that needs a new home.

Point is do your own homework, ask all the right questions and just be careful it is clear to you what you are after so you can communicate that to a workshop. I think you are about to spend 6k on an engine that only makes 190-200rwkws that may not do what you are after

[GTScotT]

Listen to Roy.

Your mechanic would make the rebuild sound like the best option, so you dont buy another supposed dud motor etc etc. But remember they also chuck some profit on every item and make a motza out of your rebuild. 6k is probably 4k in your own garage.

Get a wrecker motor like Roy said, spend 2k on buying it, installing it and changing the essentials like belts and hoses. Then spend the other 4k of your original 6k budget on epic upgrades, like a nice turbo etc.

Be smart about it, dont just throw money at people willing to take it from you. The people on this forum are giving you solid advice purely for your benefit. No cash exchange. Please take it.

[DVS JEZ]

Agreed. And thats why i recommended it straight away

[OzzySkyline07]

Cheers heaps guys!!! You have all given me heaps to think about! Especially Roy! Although the rebuild is currently underway, I have already started looking into turbos instead of using the r33 standard turbo which was suggested to me as the cheaper alternative for the build.

And I wish I had the knowledge to do it all myself! But unfortunately I dont! Nor do I have the time (

The guys at CREATD sound pretty solid so all I can do now is trust that it all turns out ok. ( I will definitely be upgrading the turbo tho, The HKS 2530 sounds like the goods tho!)

They are meant to be sending me some pics of the build as it goes along, and I will be heading in there soon to see how things are goin and to sort this turbo issue out and take a few photos myself so ill post them when I can.

Once again, seriously cheers heaps for all the info. I really appreciate it!

Trav.