E85 Vs Water/meth Injection

[AngryRB]

Yeah I was gunna say learn to clutch kick, then I read your spec list Mark and the problem is pretty obvious...your clutch is no good..your setup should be good for 350kws dude..how can you expect to get close to that with a 250kw clutch..?

yeah true buts its holding well at moment, so should i shoot higher then , like 340kw with E85 and get a better clutch you think, just work with what i got and boost it up??

[AngryRB]

If your tuner has that opinion of pump e85 then I wouldn't be getting him to do either tune. The safety offered by ethanol is required imo to tune at 300+kw power with a GT30 rear. Yes it has been done but those setups are knock limited, there is no point pushing petrol to that point as the 98 fuel variation will kill it quicker.

Get e85 tuned a little rich and you will be fine on any ethanol fuel, if you are worried just slap a wideband in the dash and add 98 as required.

I haven't done water injection on any of my cars yet although I plan to direct inject water into a spare high compression VQ25 I have here. If you could inject it on the exhaust stroke you would have the steam to help spool the turbo, possibly gaining some response back. Perhaps it could work in the manifold too?

some good ideas there, im not really mechanically minded to be the ginnea pig with water injection though, just want some strong results without guessing, experimenting,

thanks for all the input people, so looks like i need a different tuner then and E85 with some decent boost, hmm, i was quite happy with how cautious my tuner was and how he explained everything , he let me watch the whole thing....

well atleast im getting closer to an answer to my problem here, one thing i like about this turbo is that it really seems to react to each psi increase very well, 15psi to 18psi felt huge on the road.

Edited June 16, 2012 by SliverS2

[ARTZ]

Yeah gtx should respond real well..I say get a clutch, bigger injectors and better fuel pump and you will smash out an extra 50kws..add E85 and you could smash another 50kw on top of that..your nowhere near the potential of that turbo yet..

[AngryRB]

what about my stock bottem end? will that take over 320kws with E85? maybe i should stop with 320kw and try to build up the mid range with the E85? how long is a piece of string lol... can see this going to RB30 bottem end and 350kw plus over a long build up period lol... help me fry tyres lol hahaha

Edited June 16, 2012 by SliverS2

[ARTZ]

Firstly it appears you have missed this thread..

http://www.skylinesa...opened-25-club/

Secondly, if a tyre fryer is all you want why not just give up now and build a V8, you will get far better results for less ..

A built rb30 is gunna cost 5-10k and a fair bit of messin about, where a simple V8 commy with CAI, cams cam and an aftermarket exhaust will fry tyres all day long..

[AngryRB]

nah mate ive read that thread over and over, and i dont want some dirty V8 in my bonnet lol.... hahahah

ok well according to tuner i have carbon build up, thats why it wouldnt accept more timing apparently?? and yeah it was disapointing that it didnt hit 300Kw on 18psi like in all the 300kw club did...

So where does leave me?? hmm i dont wanna spend 5-10k or mess around much more, already spend over 5K already so im at the end of my $$$ spending pretty much, maybe i should of just bought a 2003 SS ute and enjoyed some tyre frying V8 but too late for that and im committed to my RB and love it, so ok with 2K budget and with goal of doing this around Xmas time i wanna try to make most of what i got, keep in mind stock motor and making it more aggressive...

so far im accepting E85 is the way to go with 20psi plus to wake this thing up and get it a bit more pissed off lol... think ill try that and see what happens... if it can come up with 320kw and a meatier mid range ill hang my hat up at that and just enjoy the thing... dam wish id of gone 0.63 internal with E85 now but cant look back..

Edited June 16, 2012 by SliverS2

[ARTZ]

man on E85 at even 18psi will get you over 300kw and the midrange will be great..do not get a .63 internal thats just silly, your turbo setup is perfect already, you even have cams ffs..it should be a goddamn rocket..

for 2k as i said, Id be getting get bigger/better injectors and fuel pump, you will probably need a new clutch too and if your tuner isnt happy with E85 find a new one and you should be smoking tyres like a madman

[AngryRB]

thanks mate, just the answer i was looking for.. all i can do is see what happens, i think its pretty good, so with E85 i should be happy i hope.. lol.. what pump should i do ? bosh 044 intank or a deatchworks 300L/ph??

im thinking deatchworks 1000cc injectors deatchworks 300L/ph pump and a NPC 300kwplus rated organic cluch, does this sound adequate????

[scotty nm35]

The new Walbro 416lph looks good for the money, and ethanol safe apparently. I can get them for $180 locally and they flow around 215lph at 85psi while drawing only 18amps.

Personally I would get the Bosch ev14 1000's and go for a 14mm top feed rail.

[ARTZ]

yeah what he said ^^^

also if you go NPC you will want the 10inch carbotic ..its rated to almost 400kw,,..DWs injectors should be ok but there are better,..Im not certain about your fuel pump it might be ok as long as its wired for full voltage try it and see..

But before doing anything just grab a drum of e85 and get someone to tune it, see how it goes then upgrade parts from there..no point buying stuff you may not need..

[Super Drager]

I've also been thinking about this for a long time, i'm doing a DE+TT on my 300ZX and i have 2 Eflex pumps near my house. Only problem is my car is a daily driver so taking it for fairly long drives is out of the question.

[AngryRB]

so you think just see what happens? the tuner said the injectors are on 78% now with 285kw , so no way they are going to be ok with E85, so maybe your saying replace injectors and then use what i have with a NPC clutch and see?

Another question, can i fill up with some E85 without flogging the car , with the purpose of cleaning carbon off the engine parts????? how long would it take and what %mix??? 20L in each tank for a few tanks??

[AngryRB]

I've also been thinking about this for a long time, i'm doing a DE+TT on my 300ZX and i have 2 Eflex pumps near my house. Only problem is my car is a daily driver so taking it for fairly long drives is out of the question.

Sounds like that thing has so much potential being 3L and can put twin garretts on it plus E85, too much temptation there lol

[R31Nismoid]

Another question, can i fill up with some E85 without flogging the car , with the purpose of cleaning carbon off the engine parts????? how long would it take and what %mix??? 20L in each tank for a few tanks??

If its not tuned for it, it wont run. You'll be totally under fuelling.

[R31Nismoid]

And don't think you stock motor will last forever @ 300rwkw.

Slowly but surely some users in the 300rwkw RB25 thread, are killing motors. It was always going to happen, and there will be more as the months roll on.

If you want a stock motor to last, stick to a safe 260-280rwkw on a sensible 16-18psi.

Realistically you've got a GTX, you NEED to run upwards of 20psi to make benefit of it. So unless you do want to run such levels of boost you should have purchased a GT3076.

[AngryRB]

I think your right, So even on E85 will the stock motor have limited life?? i dont bounce off limiter or do any track days or drag, its 99% street use..

anyone want a GTX3076 without rear in perfect condition?? what if i just changed the compressor wheel would that make it a GT3076 and change the boost threshold????

[Super Drager]

Sounds like that thing has so much potential being 3L and can put twin garretts on it plus E85, too much temptation there lol

And the thing is i'm going to have a built longblock on the side aswell, so when the NA motor dies i swap them around and keep going.

[AngryRB]

hmm, i shoulda coulda got a 300zx, they were a bit cheaper than a R33 at the time but thought 2 of everthing that takes alot of $$$ maybe one day lol

[Super Drager]

hmm, i shoulda coulda got a 300zx, they were a bit cheaper than a R33 at the time but thought 2 of everthing that takes alot of $$$ maybe one day lol

Depends man, i lucked out with my car because its been VERY reliable as it was always taken care of. But most you see are thrashed out and have problems which is why im boosting mine to avoid buying someone elses lemon. Also my mates are mechanics and my whole setup is costing me ~$1500 ish to do, 7psi base tune on 98 at first then some big injectors and E85 after. They make about 250rwkw on stock turbos(16psi) and PULP98, i'm hoping mine on 18psi and E85 will be a little bit more than that. R33 is allround easier to work on and live with, but after driving many examples of both i can't go past a nice Z32.

[AngryRB]

well going off the tuners advice, once again here, i was told its the heat that kills the motor, the 98pump fuel when you get too high in boost you start going backwards, and the exhaust valves start to burn , but if i was using E85 he said he would go upto 1.5bar and still be safe on a stock motor, and it would except alot more ignition timing, so is that really saying the motor is on borrowed time with what would be 320kw plus on a stock engine????

sounds like its not to do with the power but more to do with the temperature of the combustion process, so a 300kw engine could blow on 98 but a E85 could be happy on 340kw if the combustion was cool and under control.??? is that right?