4 Bolt Driveshaft Upgrades

[ydr030]

Anyone played around with these 4 bolt cvs? Wanting to get movement out of a set. U carnt get new parts any more and i no i could make a good set from others but wondering if u can use bits from r33 shafts etc mainly from a cost and availability point

[tir31]

ive had a few sets rebooted thru a mate and had him look at 1 which had excessive play but no good had wear in the cup which = throw away. ive got a few sets that are tight as from standard unmodified cars if u get desperate.

jon.

[ydr030]

Thanks jon yea thats my problem. Two drift days and they got movement. I thought they were "stronger" than 6 bolt..

Ill be definatly hitting u up when ive sorted my shit out

[rb26zed]

I believe the DR30 4 bolt type and the 32 skyline onwards type are essentially the same with a couple of minor variations. So it is possible to use parts of one to repair another.

Obviously the main cup is different as one has a 4 bolt flange and the other a 5 bolt flange, so if this part is worn then there is not much you can do.

But the the balls and inner ball race that slips on the axle are close enough. The axle splines changed profile slightly between the early 30/31 4 bolt type and the later type, but they can be interchanged.

I have used z31 4 bolt shafts in r33 cv's in my zed and they work. Z31, DR30 and HR31 4 bolt axles are all the same. The slightly different spline profiles made them very tight to get into the r33 cv, but this swap is reasonably common in the USA.

As a reference, I was quoted $800 to have a pair of custom shafts made complete with brand new Holden cv's. The shafts were about $400, so that's about $400 for the 4 cv's. Rebuilds would be easier and cheaper afterwards. Something to think about.

The 6 bolt (3x2) use the tripod style cv while the 4 and 5 bolt use the 5 ball race style cv. So yes they are kind of stronger in the sense that they can withstand greater misalignment angles than the tripod style and wear less as a result. But beware that some 5 bolt cv's can use the tripod style cv. They look identical from the outside though. So be specific and use part numbers when ordering. The 6 bolt from GTR's and 300zxTT are different again.

Edited June 19, 2012 by rb26zed

[ydr030]

^thanks man, thought there had to be some simularities, thats what i was getting at, its not the cup that is worn, its the inner race thats gone, good to hear that 32 etc sare similar parts, i will be looking into this more.

and yea the tripod style cv just looks stronger, ive tried to mix dr30 with hr31 and obviously differnt. but the tripod style is much bigger, has less parts and in hind site just looks stronger.

ive heard mixed results with guys running holden cvs. your probally right thou once its sorted its cheap to fix. but if im gonna spend big $ on cvs. ill be doing it once.

[rb26zed]

Sorry I wasn't clear mate, the tripod style (6x2) are the weaker ones, the 5 ball race style (4 & 5 bolt) are the stronger ones.

What you need to do is get the inner race, the part that slips onto the axle shaft, from any 5 bolt cv from '32 Skylines onwards. This should fit your cv but will be very tight getting it on your axle. It's so tight I would call it a once only job. Put it on once and only remove it if absolutely necessary. It is the cheap fix option though, so just be aware of that.

If you need to do them again though, I would be looking at a custom set using readily available parts. You don't have to use Holden cv's, they were just suggested by the shop as they are cheap, readily available and will more than easily withstand the power and use. Any brand cv could be made work in reality.

DR30 and HR31 4 bolt cv's should be the same. Not sure why you found differences.

[chinna]

dr30 and hr31 same i have a set from both cars and no difference

[ydr030]

yea no worries, i wasnt clear either i was comparing the 6x2 dr30 to hr31 4 bolt simiularities just for spares.

obviously dr30 4 bolt and hr31 4 bolt are the same.

and yea i like tight!!! im trying to find a set of 32 shafts now so will be trying this in the near future.

i drive it to a from events thats why im paranoid of these things, so if they keep getting movement i will have to look further into it. i have seen a r30 rally car which had a ls1 in it, it looked like he was using gtr shafts, but not 100% on how it was done, gtr shafts are 31 spline so ud probally need to run a gtr centre?? i dunno, but gtr shafts would be the go.

[rb26zed]

I'm no expert but I don't think power or use are your problem. These shafts are generally not a problem for big hp cars being abused. What kills these cv's mostly is exaggerated shaft angles as a result of lowering. So upgrading to anything, including GTR or even custom shafts is probably not going to eliminate your problems.

I would be looking at ways of raising your diff and keeping your axle angles straighter. This will reduce your wear rate somewhat and should increase the life of stock shafts whatever model combo you choose.

You can run the larger 6 bolt shafts from the GTR and 300zxtt if you run the 6 bolt stub shafts that go in the diff, but like you say you will need to use an LSD center for a GTR because of the larger 31 spline stub shafts. But then the GTR axles will be too long and will need to be either shortened (~$400) or custom ones made (~$500) plus of course the cost of a new LSD center.

But personally I wouldn't be spending money on converting to stock 2nd hand parts, even GTR. Spend it on converting to good brand new parts as I said before.

[ydr030]

Yea i was always told they are stronger so thats why i upgraded so i can make the car more reliable (which it already is) im just not so sure yet

U are 100% spot on about the angles the shafts are at maybe 6x2 shafts can take more angle?

The subframe has been raised as high as it can go and diff mount has been raised also

The car is low but not earthed.

Also ive just gotten all the neg camber out off the car and worried now with grip itll put more stress on them.

I spoke to my diff guy and he reckons porsche cvs are the go? I havent looked into it thou anything porsche sounds very pricey lol

[rb26zed]

I have heard of the Porche cv conversion a lot. Seems pretty common, so I would assume that it shouldn't be too pricey. I don't believe they are actually Porche cv's, just cv's made by someone that are used in Porches and probably other cars also.

Honestly I don't think the brand would matter too much. Just get decent sized cv's that are common enough to be rebuilt easily and cheaply. Make sure they are ball and race style like your 4 and 5 bolt Nissan cv's. These can withstand greater shaft angles than the tripod style (6x2). I believe both the Porche and the Holden cv's are the 6 ball and race style and are both large enough.

If you have already improved your diff mounting position and camber angles too get your shafts at better angles then It's probably not actually causing your premature shaft wear. It's quite likely that you are just using tired 2nd hand parts that have already seen 25 years of abuse and high angles, and you are just the straw that keeps breaking the camels back. Either way It would be peace of mind for the future if you upgrade to a newer cv.

For those that don't know the difference,

Here is a pic of a tripod style

..and 2 pics of a 6 ball and race style, ie; 4 and 5 bolt Nissan

These are considered to be stronger and able to withstand greater shaft angles than the tripod style.

[ydr030]

Haha "straw in the camels back" ur probaly right u know. Ill see how i go on 7th fingers crossed they dont break. But i will be looking into upgrades or grab a good set from jon when ive sorted my shit out

[ydr030]

Soooo went drifting yesterday. i didnt brake em. But they are flogged. Hard. With the amount of movement they now have im surprisred i made it home. Will look into r32 bits etc. so will update as i go

[ydr030]

ok so i was at wtac, stuk my head under the sizzler hr and it just blew my mind! apart from all the other cool stuff i want to find out if any one knows wat shafts / companion flanges are these??

[tir31]

sexy!

jon.

[rb26zed]

Those are porche cv's. There doesn't appear to be any companion flanges either so I would say that is a custom porche cv conversion.

[ydr030]

cheers yea i thought so, just confused how they bolt into the diff and the hub, you can see the allen key bolts so i am assuming the shafts unbolt from them??

[rb26zed]

Those allen key bolts are to hold the cv together and to bolt to the flanges.

It looks to me that they have made a flange ,or possibly modified an original, for the wheel end.

And the diff end looks like they are using a flanged stub axle, like later short nose r200's use. They have either had one custom made or are using modified ones from a different r200, possibly the stub axle from the short side of a Pathfinder front diff, which are usually r200's.

My best guess would be that both flanges are custom made though.

[ydr030]

true, yea the wheel end flange does kind of look like the original, guess it wouldnt be to hard to drill and tap threads in....

out of curiousity im gonna go to pick n pay on the weekend hopefully they got a pathfinder there just to have alook at

cheers

[rb26zed]

The pathfinder short side stub axle can be useful because it is a solid circle, unlike other R200 stubs, so it can be modified by drilling and tapping.

However Pathfinders use the bolt in style not the circlip style. To get around this you either need to use the threaded spider gear from the center of the Pathfinder diff inside your LSD, which can be done but requires complete disassembly of both diff centers. Or you need to modify the bolt in style stub to be circlip style. This is much more difficult as you need to add an extra inch to the stub essentially. This can be done, as I have had it done to my R180.

I had the extra length of stub axle cut from the end of a circlip style R180 stub axle, an S13 R180, and had it drilled and tapped to bolt to the end of the bolt in stub from a Navara R180. This was necessary for me to use a 720 R180 with an S13 R180 LSD center which has 27 splines (like subaru). Because the S13 stub's flange sticks out from the diff about 1 1/2" further than the flush Navara/Pathfinder stubs. I needed this extra clearance so that I could retain the stock axle shaft and not have to shorten it.

My setup goes like this, 720 R180 longnose with an S13 Tomei LSD 2 way with 2 x Navara (short side) bolt in stub axles modified to be circlip style. The shafts are R30 with R30 cv's on the outside and S13 cv's on the diff side. This is in an R30 cradle with R30 trailing arms.

To do this with yours you will need, 2 x Pathfinder/Navara/Terrano short side stub axles. The short and long sides are blatantly obvious once you see the diff, short side is ~4" long, long side is ~2 feet. These 4wd's can have either an R180 or R200 in the front. The back plate dimensions are the same as regular RWD ones so use this to determine if it is an R200 or not. You will also need 2 x R200 circlip style stubs. Then you could drill and tap them to suit the Porsche cv's. But this will require custom axle shafts.

If you can get these parts cheap enough it could be worth doing it this way.

Porsche cv's sell for around $450 for a set of 4 chinese ones or $850 for German ones.

It would be cheaper to use new Nissan cv's and not need custom axle shafts though.

Personally I would talk to a decent driveshaft shop about what cv's could be made work easiest with the least amount of modification. Show them your flange options and see what will work with them.