VH45DE in R33 GTS25t

[red17]

And then theres this, the most awesome V8 TT conversion ive seen

http://www.zparts.com/showcase/engines/ima...45zpower_4b.jpg

http://www.zparts.com/showcase/engines/ima...zpower_03rw.jpg

http://www.zparts.com/showcase/engines/ima...powers_11rw.jpg

[R33NT]

red17 you are right i forgot to correct the fact that i had been told it was a VH41 in the S13

That datto looks NICE. Much better than the guy that bolted the Gen3 in (black i think).

I have been told Castlemaine Rod Shop was supposed to be working on an adaptor plate. I will call up and check this on monday.

[Obsydian]

aaaahahaha

So let's recap..

I have a VH45 in a Silvia, in Victoria, built by SST now?

ahhh Internet Chinese Whispers... it doesn't get any better than this

Obzai

[R33NT]

who said anything about Vic

As far as i have been told someone has a VH41 in an S13 in perth and it is still not on the because the tail shaft among other things is not completed????????

[jager]

R33NT

if ya wanna sell some parts let me know

am in SA and im looking for a new dump pipe on my r33

yours sounds good as long as its still in good nick

email me at [email protected] just put markus in the heading

alot of people use it

[Obsydian]

The Vic reference comes from under one of the linked threads.

That someone in Perth is me, and it is completed and has been for some time now, and drives quite nicely indeed. It is however still unlicensed for now as I have not finished altering the bonnet in a street legal manner.

I was merely having a chuckle at the "I know a guy who once spoke to a dude who slept with this guy's mum who said this dude had a.." etc. etc. nature of the postings above... You've gotta admit it's pretty funny how the details get lost or twisted along the way.

No offence intended.

Obzai

[R33NT]

So what is the VH45DE like.

What is the weight of the VH45DE?

Is it heavier than the SR20DET/CA18DET that would have been in the S13?

If anyone knows i would like to know an exact weight comparison between RB25DET and the VH45DE.

What rear wheel kw and Nm did you get?

Did you freshen the motor?

Did you reco the gearbox?

Is the Gearbox a bit sluggish when it shifts (came out of a luxury car so i would expect that)?

Are you running an aftermarket ECU?

Did you have problems with the auto box computer?

etc

As you can see i have lots of questions i just havent found anyone who actually owns one of these yet.

Before everybody starts to try and buy parts of my car, I should explain that this is something i am looking at doing and i wont consider pulling my GTS25t apart before i have a VH45DE (which i dont) and i have enough information to do it (which i dont). Motor Vehicle Registry and Insurance has to be checked before i seriously entertain this conversion (which i havent).

[R33NT]

OK so much for the VH45DE. Has anyone looked at the VK45DE it has heaps more torque and a 5speed auto. I think i might shelve my plan for a while until the VK45DE along with its gear box becomes available at a REASONABLE price.

Read the following for review

http://infiniti.jbroadtests.com/M/2003/index3.php

[Obsydian]

So what is the VH45DE like.

What is the weight of the VH45DE?  

Is it heavier than the SR20DET/CA18DET that would have been in the S13?  

If anyone knows i would like to know an exact weight comparison between RB25DET and the VH45DE.

I haven't been able to collect exact weights for each of these motors unfortunately, but I do estimate the VH to be similar to the RB when consideration is given to the cast iron block and the turbo peripherals associated with the RB.

The VH45 and VH41 are significantly different in certain areas across all years from about 1991 to 1999, and depending on if the motor is from a Japanese or American vehicle. In terms of weight and power the VH series are quite similar, with the VK45 leaping ahead in power and torque, and the VK56 leaving the lot for dead torque-wise but being tuned for 'only' 300hp... Nissan call it Endurance Tuned (it's in the 5000lb Titan SUV or Infiniti Q56 luxury 4WD)

What rear wheel kw and Nm did you get?

So far, 230hp and about 330Nm at the rear hubs on a Dynapack. No strip times yet, but hopefully soon.

Did you freshen the motor?

Did you reco the gearbox?

I bought a high km's half cut but with excellent service history. All indicators suggested the motor was healthy, so I just changed the fluids and plugs and fired it up. Gearbox has not been treated nicely as I don't wish to keep it. I have begun looking into making a VG30 manual box fit, as it is closer in shape to suit the bolt pattern of the VH motor.

Is the Gearbox a bit sluggish when it shifts (came out of a luxury car so i would expect that)?

Are you running an aftermarket ECU?

Did you have problems with the auto box computer?

Gearbox is excellent. It will either slurr shifts if you're cruising or snap them in hard if you're on open throttle or shifting by hand. I am running full standard engine and gearbox ECUs and associated looms (modified by me to suit the car).

The engine and auto ECUs do communicate, but the engine does run fine without the auto connected (apparently this is not the case with the Lexus?). I spent approximately a week of 12-14 hour days tracing and trying to understand the control looms and remove a lot of dead garbage. I now know a fair bit about them, but far from everything.

As you can see i have lots of questions i just havent found anyone who actually owns one of these yet.

If you want any extra detail, feel free to private message me and I'll do what I can to help

Did you speak to Castlemaine Rod Shop?

I contacted them early in my project to see if they had an adaptor kit for a manual box and they asked me to send them a block, crank and bellhousing, none of which I had spare at the time...

Obzai

[R33NT]

With regard to the gearbox slurring shifts if cruising and snapping if racing does that mean it will switch between comfy mode and sport mode based on load / feedback from ECU / driving style?

Is the Silfnity.wmv and associated pictures your car?

I talked to Castlemain Rod Shop and they said that the only thing that could handle the engine for power and torque was a ford tremec gearbox and they could sell me one with adaptor plate (which had to be made in their workshop) for about $5K to $6K. Note he didnt quote me he just said somewhere around that.

You said there are significant differences in the VH45DE from early to late 90s, what are the biggest differences?

The big question is how does your car handle through corners etc after getting the VH45DE in? eg does it understeer earlier?

Are you thinking of doing up some extractors for this one at some stage or are you going to go with the stock config?

[Obsydian]

With regard to the gearbox slurring shifts if cruising and snapping if racing does that mean it will switch between comfy mode and sport mode based on load / feedback from ECU / driving style?

Yes, plus it has the standard nissan auto hold/power switch, overdrive and kickdown controls, all of which can be manipulated while driving to encourage the gearbox to play by your rules. There are also further options to increase the 'manual'-ness such as unplugging the shift bias resistor (commonly mentioned) and it is also possible to drive the shift solenoids by hand with some modification.

Is the Silfnity.wmv and associated pictures your car?

Yes

You said there are significant differences in the VH45DE from early to late 90s, what are the biggest differences?

Anything from intake and exhaust manifolds to timing gear. Between the VH41 and 45 the 45 has slightly larger overall dimensions. Searching Infiniti forums and Q45 websites will reveal the extent of the differences across the US range, however Japanese domestic engines are different again with exhausts altered to suit right-hand drive, etc. etc.

The big question is how does your car handle through corners etc after getting the VH45DE in? eg does it understeer earlier?

It is still too early to comment as I have not had a chance to push the car hard on a track yet, however so far it has not been an issue. I chose a VH41DE from a Japanese domestic Nissan Cima for numerous reasons, the primary one being MrMayhem happened to have one sitting in his yard the exact week I needed it. Ease of fitment and licensing were also considered.

Are you thinking of doing up some extractors for this one at some stage or are you going to go with the stock config?

I have made the stock config work so far, however the manifolds are severely restrictive (designed with space consideration the highest priority it would appear) and so if I decide to seek horsepower in the future I will need to make some extractors. If I am going to go to the hassle of making a set of manifolds, I will be seriously considering forced induction at the same time to ensure return on investment.

Much of the transplant (such as the disgusting exhaust system) was deliberately done in order to make the vehicle street-safe and friendly for passing the pit inspection. The bonnet must be enclosed before this stage is complete (currently working on that now).

Obzai

[R33NT]

Damnit Obsydian stop telling me that i can control the shifting of the gearbox. I have a couple of degrees one if which involves electronics and the other programming so for me to build a circuit to control the gear box and give me push button gear changes is nothing more exciting than getting out of bed in the morning. Hmmmmmmm paddle shift in a V8 R33...............Now if that included the 5 speed auto from the VK45DE i would get way too excited.

I would recommend you to PM Strutto and have a look at the photos of his mates V8 Skyline. Nice.........

[Obsydian]

lol sorry dude, but it's the truth :)

From my research nearly all of the 1990's Nissan auto boxes can be controlled in this manner... as you say, building your own shift controlling system is not difficult, the shift solenoids are simply a two bit binary control pattern.

ie.

Solenoid A on and Solenoid B on, first gear selected

Solenoid A off and Solenoid B on, second gear selected

Solenoid A off and Solenoid B off, third gear selected

Solenoid A on and Solenoid B off, overdrive fourth gear selected

In fact, by the sounds of it, it would also be within your abilities to control the line pressure solenoids (simple PWM) and lock-up torque convertor as well... I did for a while consider doing exactly this as I am similarly educated as yourself, however the gearbox seems to be behaving well enough as it is for now.

When I first got the car running I drove it without the auto ECU plugged in at all... taking off in third gear is a little sluggish, but it was still happy to do donuts.

You could run both systems side by side... on cruise, standard ECU handles everything... when you go racing, turn on your override system and force the gearbox to shift severely hard with your paddle mechanism.

Wait until you see what you can get out of the consult port...

Obzai

[h8t_copsr32]

how much did it coast you to buy the motor

what did you do to get the vh45det in the engine bay

did you have to change to sway bars, an did you have to change the flywheel.....

[R33NT]

Obsydian this is just sounding too tempting.

Does the auto computer control the rate at which the gears shift aswell??

What does the consult port output simple RS232 hex or is it RS485 or even CAN???

h8t_copsr32 what i am about to say comes only from talking with people, no experience.

You can buy a VH45DE in a front cut and the most expensive front cut i have found so far was a 94 model which costs $2800

There are some photos on this forum which strutto pointed me towards which show the VH45DE sitting in an R33.

I wouldnt think you would change flywheel because the VH45DE only comes with an auto and from what i have heard it would be a nightmare and massively expensive to get a manual box that could handle the VH45 and also an adaptor plate to be able to bolt the box behind it.

[Obsydian]

Does the auto computer control the rate at which the gears shift aswell??

There is a point at which shift speed is limited by the hardware design of the gearbox itself, it is essentially still a fairly sloppy hydraulically driven planetary gear system and comes with all the associated negatives (ie. lack of truly solid overall mechanical connection between crank and rear wheel unlike a manual transmission). Ultimately, the fastest you can make it shift is probably when the bias resistor is unplugged... this usually results in shifts hard enough to spin wheels as I'm sure those who have tried this will testify. If you were making a shifting system, you could simply go open circuit on the bias resistor when you choose, otherwise the ECU controls this with Pulse Width Modulation of the hydraulic line pressure solenoid.

What does the consult port output simple RS232 hex or is it RS485 or even CAN???

It is a proprietary system, however it does seem to be more or less based on simple serial communication such as RS232.

Peter and Martin (and others) from PLMS Designs have spent some time reverse engineering it and have made extensive details available on their website. This is general details for the Nissan consult systems in most cars during the 1990's so it's not specifically V8 stuff, but it still applies.

Obzai

[strutto]

Ultimately, the fastest you can make it shift is probably when the bias resistor is unplugged... this usually results in shifts hard enough to spin wheels as I'm sure those who have tried this will testify. If you were making a shifting system, you could simply go open circuit on the bias resistor when you choose, otherwise the ECU controls this with Pulse Width Modulation of the hydraulic line pressure solenoid.

Obzai,

What and where is this bias resistor you speak of? Is it an Infinity Auto thing only or is it valid for all Nissan autos?

TIA!

[Obsydian]

What and where is this bias resistor you speak of?  Is it an Infinity Auto thing only or is it valid for all Nissan autos?

The position of it varies according to vehicle, but it's basically a big white ceramic resistor mounted in a folded up metal shield with a single two wire plug on it.

In S13's they are usually located near the airbox on the passenger side, in Skylines... well, I have no idea

No doubt someone before me has mentioned it somewhere else on this forum, a quick search for "shift resistor" or "bias resistor" or something similar should turn up a relevant post, probably from someone keen on drag racing.

Obzai

[R33NT]

Obsydian i actually tried the Nissan consult at the nissan dealer last time i had a problem so i have seen it. Nice touch screen bit of gear. But since then i got a PowerFC.

[h8t_copsr32]

r33nt

would it be stupid to ask why go for something so out there you would dare to be diffrent i think it's a crazy idea and is it street legal............?

would it be possible to defect the car for having the engine in it........?

it's a crazy arse idea an con grats on the idea by the way mate......