Spat Power Steering Belt With New Ross Tuffbond

[abr33]

Hi everyone, I found a thread from a while back with similar issues but didnt seem to be the same problem that caused it.

Anyway this morning I went to a local airstrip for a bit of fun, I fitted ross tuffbond balancer a few weeks back. Today was the hardest time iv ever given it and was trying to iron out any issues by feeding it some. I wasnt hitting limiter, (maybe a tiny bit) and after 30 odd mins of driving the power steering belt spat it, and im not even sure it did it under big revs, just when flicking it sideways in 2nd i believe.

The balancer has a tiny wiggle at idle when I look at it. I think stock one was the same. Unsure if common.

I had it pretty tight, and i have revved it out on a lot of occasions without this problem.

The belt is also quite old too. I was replacing it soon anyway. Also the pulleys line up properly

Id like some input as to the reasons and if its happened very often?

Car is r33 with 25.

Also off topic, Iv heard of people spinning bearings hitting rises in the road, has this ever happened from large bums in road or more when over crest etc?? Just curious.

Thanks for your help

[Piggaz]

Had the same issue with my setup too.

Make sure your power steering pump isn't 'drooping' and fit one of these. http://blog.rossperformanceparts.com/alloy-power-steering-idler-kit/

Fixed my issue.

[abr33]

ok cool thanks very much Paul, glad to hear its not uncommon or real bad. I might just make an idler up :-)

[RRob]

Wobble in both balancer's? Damaged crank..

[abr33]

Its only a tiny wiggle, most people prob would'nt see it. Crank should'nt be damaged its not long ago been blueprinted and balanced and its done nothing really since that, just road and dyno kms

[The Dan]

Have you got the balancer tight all the way and what did you use to tighten it?

[abr33]

Have you got the balancer tight all the way and what did you use to tighten it?

Have you got the balancer tight all the way and what did you use to tighten it?

I used my old torque wrench to get it to 200nm, then small pipe on half inch breaker bar to what i would say about 300 odd nm. Wasnt going to the recommended 440nm. I also used a drop of loctite 263. It all went up square and neat.

[R32 TT]

mmm... I was not going to say anything, but this thread concerns me a little.

I had an ATI Balancer on my car and removed it to fit a Ross unit with the trigger wheel - only a few weeks before Piggaz did his actually.

I immediately started throwing power steering belts. This was the only change made to the car at the time.

Have been back and forth to Ross - the man himself who is a lovely bloke and very helpful - however haven't fixed the issue just yet.

Used the idler pulley as above and fixed it to a degree, but still some issues. And my worry is that this is a bandaid to a problem I did not have when using the ATI 1000hp unit.

Got new power steering bracket and faced it flat - slightly shimmed the power steering pulley to make sure it was definitely lined up right.

Shortly afterwards my cam belt somehow jumped three teeth in 3rd gear, full throttle at about 5500rpm. ( was logging it at the time is how I know)

Got the car back to the workshop - cam belt is still well tensioned - so we are at a loss as to how it has jumped - unless a foreign object got in there.

Piggaz meanwhile has done an oil pump shortly after fitment.....

The reason I have not posted on here prior is because I don't want to start any rumours without hard facts... and - lets be honest I still don't have any 'hard facts' but now seeing this I thought I should mention it. Ross has a very good reputation anywhere I read, so I don't want to tarnish it. But if there is (somehow) something going on here we obviously need to know.

Unfortunately both my car and Pauls are off the road so I can't continue my 'research' on this at the moment !

Any thoughts/comments from engine builders?

[Kenna802]

I had same issue. Issue for me was Balancer was not tight enough. I had to replace keyhole.

[The Dan]

I used my old torque wrench to get it to 200nm, then small pipe on half inch breaker bar to what i would say about 300 odd nm. Wasnt going to the recommended 440nm. I also used a drop of loctite 263. It all went up square and neat.

You cannot get the tension you need using your breaker bar with the car in gear and handbrake on. Apart from doing damage to your gearbox, it's extremely poor practice to tighten a balancer this way.

This is the reason I have 3 skylines in my shop at the moment all with f**ked keyways/balancer/crankshaft.

Unless, of course, you did it by locking the flywheel in place then that's ok

mmm... I was not going to say anything, but this thread concerns me a little.

I had an ATI Balancer on my car and removed it to fit a Ross unit with the trigger wheel - only a few weeks before Piggaz did his actually.

I immediately started throwing power steering belts. This was the only change made to the car at the time.

Have been back and forth to Ross - the man himself who is a lovely bloke and very helpful - however haven't fixed the issue just yet.

Used the idler pulley as above and fixed it to a degree, but still some issues. And my worry is that this is a bandaid to a problem I did not have when using the ATI 1000hp unit.

Got new power steering bracket and faced it flat - slightly shimmed the power steering pulley to make sure it was definitely lined up right.

Shortly afterwards my cam belt somehow jumped three teeth in 3rd gear, full throttle at about 5500rpm. ( was logging it at the time is how I know)

Got the car back to the workshop - cam belt is still well tensioned - so we are at a loss as to how it has jumped - unless a foreign object got in there.

Piggaz meanwhile has done an oil pump shortly after fitment.....

The reason I have not posted on here prior is because I don't want to start any rumours without hard facts... and - lets be honest I still don't have any 'hard facts' but now seeing this I thought I should mention it. Ross has a very good reputation anywhere I read, so I don't want to tarnish it. But if there is (somehow) something going on here we obviously need to know.

Unfortunately both my car and Pauls are off the road so I can't continue my 'research' on this at the moment !

Any thoughts/comments from engine builders?

Is the Ross balancer a Metal Jacket standard OEM replacement or the Metal Jacket Race one?

Your ATI balancer is underdriven by 25% on P/S I think from memory

If your alignment is correct and your tension is correct but you still spit belts, you need to slow it down by underdrive. It's usually the sudden revs that throw them off

[R32 TT]

Is the Ross balancer a Metal Jacket standard OEM replacement or the Metal Jacket Race one?

Your ATI balancer is underdriven by 25% on P/S I think from memory

If your alignment is correct and your tension is correct but you still spit belts, you need to slow it down by underdrive. It's usually the sudden revs that throw them off

The ATI does underdrive the P/S by 15%. Even so, I am only spinning it to 7200 max.

This -could- be the difference. But I never had the problem with stock damper on previous engine build, nor the ATI on this one. So it does seem co-incidental. But it seems I am not the only one having the problem...?

Daniel, in your opinion it is likely that during the removal of the ATI and fitment of the Ross we could have bent just the nose of the crank? A puller was used etc - so it wasn't wrenched off with a crowbar or anything dodgy.

Edited June 30, 2012 by R32 TT

[abr33]

You cannot get the tension you need using your breaker bar with the car in gear and handbrake on. Apart from doing damage to your gearbox, it's extremely poor practice to tighten a balancer this way. This is the reason I have 3 skylines in my shop at the moment all with f**ked keyways/balancer/crankshaft. Unless, of course, you did it by locking the flywheel in place then that's ok

I put in 5th gear with brakes on to tighten it, I really didnt want to go any tighter for fear of breaking something to be honest.

And you cant say thats going to damage box or anything as in damn sure the engine will shock the box a shit load harder. Could be wrong though..

This all has me worried, should I just go back to the stock balancer?

There were no issues prior, and for slipping 3 teeth on cambelt?!?! what the hell? thats a bloody worry

Edited June 30, 2012 by abr33

[abr33]

Further to, how do you normally tighten your balancers Daniel? You evidently use flywheel locking gadgets, how do you go about tightening? Im always keen on better ideas

Edited June 30, 2012 by abr33

[XKLABA]

I have the ATI balancer on my 32 and it turn a steering belt inside out ? but left it in place at texi a while back, not a problem I have ever had before, though when I line up the two wheels it looks like the P/S wheel on the balancer is 2-3mm forward of the pump one

I am looking at the Ross one with the trigger gear on it for the 30 build I'm doing so interested to see am answer/solution also

[FineLine]

I use a ross tuffbond with no issues.

Daniel put mine together and from memory he rams the crap out of them with a rattle gun, and I mean RAMS the crap out of them..

[GTR_JOEY]

firstly i can tell you i run the Ross crank trigger on my set up, ive driven it for over 2000kms with over 350rwkw and it has not once come off. i have not slipped any teeth on my timing belt either.

in reguards to Piggaz car, as im sure he will explain, added a idler to the powersteering belt and hasnt had a problem since.

also we dont believe that the oil pump failed due to the balancer being out off balance

[DVS JEZ]

in reguards to Piggaz car, as im sure he will explain, added a idler to the powersteering belt and hasnt had a problem since.

also we dont believe that the oil pump failed due to the balancer being out off balance

No, but it is a possibility?

Can u post pics of the idler please

[Piggaz]

No, but it is a possibility?

Can u post pics of the idler please

I'll get it out tomorrow Jez.

PM me your number and ill forward the photo's on.

[R32 TT]

firstly i can tell you i run the Ross crank trigger on my set up, ive driven it for over 2000kms with over 350rwkw and it has not once come off. i have not slipped any teeth on my timing belt either.

in reguards to Piggaz car, as im sure he will explain, added a idler to the powersteering belt and hasnt had a problem since.

also we dont believe that the oil pump failed due to the balancer being out off balance

Well - don't get me wrong. I am very very happy to be told its nothing to do with it and find another reason for it.

As I said above, Ross is a good bloke to deal with, its good to buy Aussie, RIPS uses them too - and I still do have mine - so I am all for it NOT being anything to do with the balancer.

But when Piggaz started throwing belts and so did I, especially when I wasn't before hand - it raised alarm bells. Now ABR33.

So I felt it was worth mentioning - just in case. Lets hope we can find the real reason though.

[Piggaz]

Well - don't get me wrong. I am very very happy to be told its nothing to do with it and find another reason for it.

His poor little car has copped it too from some jerk! Not mentioning names. No issues which is great