Spat Power Steering Belt With New Ross Tuffbond

[kitto]

I am coming down to the nit and gritty part of my build, and saving the power steering belt issue for last. I have run a dry sump oil system on my RB26/30 build and I cannot risk having this issue, so I am going to correct/fix the issue first, before it even becomes a problem. (save the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comments please). I don't want to have a catastrophic engine failure due to an f**king power steering belt.

I am running my 2 year old RB26 Ross Dampener on my RB26/30 build, don't see a problem using it. I am either looking into the Ross Idler Kit, or this other kit they have.

http://blog.rossperf...ts/nissan-rb26/

Anyone running a dry sump have experience with this type of set-up? Anyone see any issues running this kit? Any input would be greatly appreciated.....

If not, then just to avoid the whole issue, I am gonna run a Volvo Electric Power steering pump.......

I do like these kits!

But, the other thing you could do, If you have room and IF your dry sump pump supports it (Maybe you have an Aviaid that ROSS stocks and sells), is to mount a power steering pump onto tthe back of the dry sump pump, seen it a few times now on RB's.

But if you have a 4 or 5 stage pump, you may already be super close to the engine mount and won't be able to fit the power steering pump on the back. If this is the case then you'll have to use the HID belt kit or idler kit for the factory power steering pump setup.

[femno]

My experience with ROSS.

Bought a new ROSS from justjap back in 07. Stuck it on a fresh engine and had it throwing belts no matter what. Previously had a nissan balancer with no dramas also but I wanted to replace it since the front edge was chipped. Alignment was good. Then later on I moved the P/S pump to where the AC usually is and had no problems with it after that, bit of a bandaid fix. The P/S belt is fairly long when the pump is in the std location.

Then had the car in a Racepace earlier this year and Chris noticed that the balancer had a fair wobble in it. About 8000kms use was on the balancer at this time. The wobble was measured and was found to be too excessive to use.

Chris sent it back to ROSS and we both spoke to ROSS about it and I was told that it couldnt be repaired because there were no parts available, and that he would give me a new one for half price! He refused to honour any sort of quality guarantee and at this point I was pissed with the support as the thing had done almost no work and it was unusable. I had lost complete faith in them as a company. So I thought bugger spending any more money on ROSS parts ill go with something else.

Anyway I called ROSS back a while later to arrange to have it sent back to me, Ross was away and I explained to the office chick what the deal was. The short of it was that they gave me a new one only cos she felt sorry for me and she wanted me to be happy with the company...if I dealt with Ross again i wouldve been shafted and left with no balancer.

So I got the new one, and by then had fitted a brand new Nissan balancer I found on ebay for $400; so I sold the new ROSS off. Nissan - Cheaper and better.

So the question is, how can a part that some bloke in his shed has developed, be better than a part from a company that spends millions on R&D with years and years of design and manufacturing experience...the answer in my mind for this case is that it cant be.

The nissan balancer is smooth, still and hasnt moved a bit since its been on there.

[JustinP]

hmmmm I bought one for my current build (new Neo version which seems to be made out of several different part numbers, and has the RB20 part number printed on the front of it) - now I'm kind of regretting it. Maybe I should have just bought a new OEM one.

The most annoying part is that it's heaver than the OEM item! Not sure if this will provide more harmonics reduction or not though.

Also what is the best way to hone out the inside of the balancer to fit it onto the crank? It says in the manual this is required to provide an interference fit. My (somewhat rough) measurements are showing that the the inside of the balancer is about 0.005" too small to fit onto the crank.

[Roy]

So the question is, how can a part that some bloke in his shed has developed, be better than a part from a company that spends millions on R&D with years and years of design and manufacturing experience...the answer in my mind for this case is that it cant be.

The nissan balancer is smooth, still and hasnt moved a bit since its been on there.

Also, what is the gain with running an aftermarket balancer. Never been clear to me

[R32 TT]

Well, I think the 'promise' is that the aftermarket damper (it is not actually a balancer lets remember) is to provide more/better damping that the original damper was designed for. Thats why you often see them rated via horsepower as this is some indication of the amount of 'twist' a crankshaft can experience on a modified engine.

I spoke to ATI at SEMA last year and they were adamant that if I was pushing 600+ hp then I should be using the larger 7" body rated to 1000hp. Now of course there is always the marketing side. ATI do hold some patents though and if you read them it sounds quite plausible about how it works and why it is better.

The problem any of us have is that it is not measureble (easily). You can see the results of a bigger turbo on Dyno, or a better radiator via the temp gauge etc.

When a damper throws a belt that was not being thrown before (all else being the same) then I wonder if the harmonics are not being dampened as well as they should be and the 'gauge' is the belt flying off ! (or the oil pump breaking etc)

To fit an idler pulley solves in part the 'symptom' of the belt coming off - but has it fixed the underlying, more important issue?

Hence I think a standard damper is probably a better option is cases where we just don't know. But - ATI are used on just about all NASCAR engines etc too... and I've seen charts of their harmonic damping actually tested. So!! I don't know.... : /

[SimonR32]

Ati dampers are cheap and proven in Japan (HKS and RH9 rebrand them I believe) plus in Australia and the USA on RB26 (and god knows where else around the world). I can't find any evidence of people having issues with them expect people using R33/34 parts on R32's and throwing belts. They are also really cheap, under $600 delivered for the 1000hp one!

Ross I have heard too many stories (don't know if they are true or not) that would scare me away...

Edited October 4, 2012 by SimonR32

[R32 TT]

Also, what is the gain with running an aftermarket balancer. Never been clear to me

well worth the read if you're interested.

http://www.bhjdynamics.com/downloads/pdf/tech/BHJDynamics_Damper_Info.pdf

[JustinP]

well worth the read if you're interested.

http://www.bhjdynami...Damper_Info.pdf

From the above link:

 Light vs. Heavy Pulleys – Heavy pulleys are just more parasitic inertia at the light end of

the crank and make the damper’s job more difficult. They lower the frequency a bit but

make the crank seem larger to the damper; i.e. a larger damper ring needed.

I wonder what this means for me seeing as the Ross balancer I bought is heaver than the OEM balancer!

My Ross balancer is under driven though, so two of the pullies are slightly larger than on the OEM unit.

[Stoney85]

I have this issue too, but mainly because my p/s pump isnt line dup with the ross balancer, i bought the car with this issue and am yet to rectify it (minor concern now that the engine blew up) but id say that my issue is the wrong p/s pump for the rb26 and its balancer, seeing as my car is an R34 GTT with hicas deleted

I'll look into the modifying of the bracket to relocate the pumps position and see if that helps

[kitto]

I have this issue too, but mainly because my p/s pump isnt line dup with the ross balancer, i bought the car with this issue and am yet to rectify it (minor concern now that the engine blew up) but id say that my issue is the wrong p/s pump for the rb26 and its balancer, seeing as my car is an R34 GTT with hicas deleted

I'll look into the modifying of the bracket to relocate the pumps position and see if that helps

Yep, RB26 balancer will not work with an R34 GTT power steering pump, Wrong offsets.

In an R34, HICAS has nothing to do with the power steering pump as it is electric. Deleting it makes no difference to the power steering pump.

You have two options.

1. Find and buy R33 or R34 RB26 power steering pump and bracket (both have electric HICAS and will bolt straight on).

2. Remove RB26 ROSS balancer, sell, buy RB25 NEO (R34) ROSS or OEM balancer and go from there.

[R32 TT]

Just in case anyone is interested, I've had ATI make me a custom balancer with provision for adding a chopper wheel to the back of it. Gives me the flexibility to configure diameter and number of teeth/configuration etc.

I have tech drawings too if anyone needs one. Going to go and have a chopper wheel CNC'd to suit and I'll post that up later when its done.

Below I've shown the back of my original 1000hp ATI balancer, and then the back of the new one. You can see I've simply had them add material back and provide six threaded holes.

[SimonR32]

How much did that set you back?

[R32 TT]

Don't take the shine of my day by asking a question like that mate....!

($850 - inc post, and including the Oversize Water Pump Pulley - essentially this is model #917753)

Obviouly its going to cost me for the CNC Trigger wheel as well - so all up not cheap, but custom one off never is I guess.

[SimonR32]

Yeah so only an extra $250 on top of a normal 1000hp one... Not too bad for custom work

[kitto]

Nice, now if you could get it to work 100% with the ROSS hall effect sensor bracket that would be sweet.

[R32 TT]

Nice, now if you could get it to work 100% with the ROSS hall effect sensor bracket that would be sweet.

Yep. That is exactly my intent. Shouldn't be very hard at all.

[kitto]

Yep. That is exactly my intent. Shouldn't be very hard at all.

Let me know how you go. If i have problems with my ROSS balancer i'm going to chuck the shits with it and put an ATI unit on. I did have an ATI unit a while back, but because no trigger disc setup existed i bought a ROSS.

See how we go.

[R32 TT]

Trigger wheel done - 24 teeth.

I have a couple of spares of these if anyone wants one down the track.

Great job done by the guys at Highspeed.

Edited December 17, 2012 by R32 TT

[Risking]

What type of trigger setup are you planning to run with all 24 teeth?

You going to have to remove one tooth to run a 24-1 setup. With what you have there the ECU won't have a TDC reference on the crank?

[R32 TT]

Hi Brad,

We're using the CAS for sync - so don't require a missing tooth.