The Complete Ethanol Thread

[Ben C34]

Yeh so they say. Its fkn massive! Ideally I would mount it close to the rail, but I can't see it fitting anywhere unless I remote mount the sensor and run like 2 meters of hose to it

on commodores it is mounted onto the fuel tank, so doesn't need to be close to the rail.

Edited July 27, 2013 by superben

[discopotato03]

Don't they run a single fuel line to the rail and no return from that point ?

A .

[StevenCJR31]

Don't they run a single fuel line to the rail and no return from that point ?

A .

yes, late model crumpledores run a returnless fuel system

part of the reason is for a reduction in evaporative emissions

[Hanaldo]

As a matter of interest, is there a way to test ethanol blend fuels for water contamination? Say for example I have a few jerry cans of E85 sitting around for awhile, is there a way to test whether the fuel is still ok to use before I put it in my car? Or is it largely a game of pour it in and hope for the best?

[scotty nm35]

Hope for the best? What do you think will happen to it in a sealed container?

It will be fine, unlike 98 it doesn't drop octane over a month.

[Hanaldo]

Well I'd like to avoid a situation like Mat's, where he put a bad batch of fuel in and ended up needing a new set of injectors. Could have been worse if the Haltech hadn't shut things down, but I don't know if my ECU will be set up as comprehensively as Mat's. I don't actually know what went wrong with the batch of fuel he put in, but I just thought there might be a way of telling whether some water has got into the fuel before it goes into the car.

[scotty nm35]

The same could be said about any fuel, many cars have filled from the bottom of the servo tank and blocked filters/injectors, or blown engines.

I have been running ethanol for 4-5 years daily without issue, if you want more of a guarantee, perhaps drum fuel is the go? Just make sure the lid stays on.

Some water in the mix won't cause any issues, it may run a little lean but don't you have a wideband going in?

[Gareth87]

I've just spent a couple of hours reading everything I can on the forum about ethanol.. Very interesting, many thanks for the input everyone. Especially with all the time people have put in testing ecu's, fuel content etc.

Few questions.. will keep it simple and brief.

1) From what I read, it seems as though the AFRs of ethanol are not as critical as 98. Is this the case? - My ecu is old but it seems that new injector technology helps a lot with fine tuning. Will mapping big injectors with 500rpm increments be a real issue? (Wolf V4)

2) I run a single 3/8th fuel line, will this be a limiting factor?

3) I run a Sard 1:1 Fuel pressure reg. Will this be a an issue?

4) Plan is to upgrade lift pump (Suggestions?), Swap the 044 for a 400lph Walbro with a filter before the lift and pressure pump, ID2000s or something big. Replace all fuel lines just for piece of mind, put it all together and take it to the dyno.

Any objections or suggestions?

Cheers all,

G

[scotty nm35]

Anything not properly gal coated, such as the tank or steel lines, may rust out eventually due to moisture content. Generally e85 is pretty good as United/Caltex are required to mix corrosion inhibitors in the mix apparently.

Replace any old rubber lines with ethanol compatible new hose and stick a Walbro 460 in, you shouldn't have any issues with the reg.

I would stick with the bosch 1000's, or the ID 1300's if you can find a set.

As for AFR's, my car ran pretty well cruising on 20:1 other than feeling a bit doughy, no discernable knock and the exhaust temps were under control. Not saying it's smart to tune it that lean, but it's possible, unlike with 98. Good to know when an issue arises you have some level of protection.

[Gareth87]

Ok great, thanks.

Also, has anyone made the swap to E85 and not made a increase in power? I've been told that depending on the engine it may not really make a difference due to head not being able to flow etc.

In saying that, my FJ20 runs 291 degree cams with head porting and a GT3040. I'm pretty sure there is a lot more left in it....

[Lithium]

Also, has anyone made the swap to E85 and not made a increase in power? I've been told that depending on the engine it may not really make a difference due to head not being able to flow etc.

If there is no increase in power on a turbo car then something is wrong. If the tuner is telling you that the heads ability to flow air is fine for pump gas but not E85 then consider my eye brow raised

[boxheadmr]

If there is no increase in power on a turbo car then something is wrong. If the tuner is telling you that the heads ability to flow air is fine for pump gas but not E85 then consider my eye brow raised

[Lithium]

Sortof, but bushier

[Gareth87]

well said! so I'll go ahead and get myself a bigger pump and injectors and get it to the dyno.. Already cracking chassis welds with 400hp in my bluebird. See what happens if it makes 500 haha.

Should go ahead with everything in about a month so I will do a step by step build guide to add to the thread for anyone interested.

Other than that, I looked up the Walbro 460. I believe that's an in tank pump. Anyone recommend a tried and tested in line?

If anyone has any other info from experience that I might benefit from, I would love to hear it.

Cheers.

[discopotato03]

Does it still have that hateful 4 link rear end with the diagonal top links ?

Semi trailing arm rear end from SSS 910/200BSSS/DR30 solves the problems but adds weight . Mine had the DR30 R200 stuff with a Nismo LSD - eventually .

H190 Detroit lockers make them open up the rear seams too .

A .

[B-rice]

if i established a flex fuel tune using Sucrogen E85 with 108octane. If I use Martini E85 116octane do i risk doing any damage. So far im thinking it will be good for reducing the likelihood of knock etc. But are there other hidden things that could potentially destroys the engine or anything else related to using high pure race octane.

Only asking because there's a workshop currently selling the Martini stuff at a good price.

[SS8_Gohan]

any 85% ethanol fuel essentially means you do not have to worry about knock (with a half decent tuner), $ucrogen or whatever other overpriced E85 drum fuel isn't going to make much of a difference imo

just tune on United if available, or Caltex - the whole idea of flex is to change the mapping based on E%, not octane. ie, you don't have to worry.

Drum stuff is just not worth it... time attack... maybe, our cars.... nup.

[B-rice]

i do understand how its all E% based, im getting the car steup for flex fuel. So if I did that with the Martini E85 im worried that if i use a lower octane fuel like Caltex or Sucrogen it will be like putting in 91octane when you have it tuned for 98. But if i use the Sucrogen stuff then an addition octane may not be a problem but im still not 100% sure. Im using the sucrogen mainly for the fact that its 100% just for the tunes sake, united in Canberra is shit they dont have E85 and at Caltex it was E77 a few days ago.

[The Dan]

i do understand how its all E% based, im getting the car steup for flex fuel. So if I did that with the Martini E85 im worried that if i use a lower octane fuel like Caltex or Sucrogen it will be like putting in 91octane when you have it tuned for 98. But if i use the Sucrogen stuff then an addition octane may not be a problem but im still not 100% sure. Im using the sucrogen mainly for the fact that its 100% just for the tunes sake, united in Canberra is shit they dont have E85 and at Caltex it was E77 a few days ago.

I think you may have misunderstood the definition of 'flex fuel'

The whole idea is to have a sensor that measures E% and the ECU adapts accordingly.

Running your car on ethanol and setting it up for flex fuel are two different things.

[SS8_Gohan]

ok, use $uckrogen drum for base E85 tune - that's your pure 85% baseline, then 98 tune and however your tuner wants to work from there. I don't think it would make a difference using the Martini as your 85% reference if the tune is conservative. But given you won't be drum filling the car, use the other brand and whatever caltex gives you, caltex gives you.