S.A.F.C. or Power FC

[AndyMac]

Word.

R33GTS-t

Say for a setup which consists of a frount mount intercooler, full 3 inch exhaust, cold air intake, standard turbo at 12psi what would be the expected increase of a Power FC over a S.A.F.C. fitted to this setup ?

And same question on the same system with a standard turbo high flowed for 16psi ?

I know one benefit would be the removal of the speed/boost restrictors....but I'm interested if there is a major gain between the fitting of a S.A.F.C. over a Power FC

ANDREW

[turbomad]

At 12psi I'd say there would'nt be hardly any benefit in the extra money for the Power FC, however with a large turbo @16psi there would be, considering you may need a Z32 AFM and injectors to safely keep it in tune. It all depends on what power you want for eg. the stock injectors and AFM are good for 210-220rwkw so I'm told. As a guide FMIC,exhaust,SAFC,fuel pump and stock turbo@12psi achieved 188rwkw for my car.

[AndyMac]

What sort of fuel pump did you use ? GTR ? did youm use the standard fuel regulator ?

[dojobi]

You've seen the results shown around here haven't you? Someone got 45rwhp from a tuned SAFC. That really is quite a fair bit, so if you aren't sure I'd just go with a SAFC. It's just cheaper and provides the bulk of the power that the PowerFC gives you.

That said, I'd say the Power FC would probably give you that little bit extra to take you over the 200rwkw mark at 12psi if I use turbomad's and other ppl like Ethan's results as a guide. I have a SAFC which is untuned at the moment, but I'll probably post a thread with my dyno results when I do get it tuned.

[turbomad]

The fuel pump is a Bosch 944, only upgraded to it coz I heard ppl say the stock pump was crappy, reg is still standard and won't be upgraded to adj until I max out the injectors.

[slayer]

Sorry if I am hijacking the thread here dude...

Surely there are other concerns other than power when choosing between a PowerFC and the SAFC?

One big one for me would be throttle response and drivability - surely the PowerFC is going to give you sharper mapping of the timing, ignition, fuel and boost in a coordinated way to make the overall driving experience more fun (and give a few more kw)?

If you were to start from scratch (like I am with a freshly imported R33 GTST), wouldnt the PowerFC and the boost control module be a better choice than a SAFC and separate boost controller?

I have used bleed valves before on my WRX, and they were awful - boost would bleed away at the top end when you want it... an EBC totally changed the power curve of the car so I dont think I would be happy with that to go with a SAFC.

So that means the SAFC with AVC-R (I think thats the Apexi boost controller?) vs the PowerFC and boost module is the comparison.

The SAFC/AVC-R setup is a little cheaper, but surely you lose crispness in power delivery and some Kw as you cant adjust timing (or am I incorrect??).

I had a Unichip and once they leaned up the fuel AND advanced the timing appropriately the WRX was so much crisper and responsive to drive it felt like a different car... just my 2cents.

Conrad

[skyzerr33]

Conrad

the boost control option on the PFC is crap, yes it does the job but no where as good as the AVCR.

the SAFC does the fuel side and allows manual advanment of the timing. while the PFC controls the fuel and timing and has more tuning points.

drivability isn't that different, but they main guide i'd go with is if you plab on upgrading the turbo in the future. if so go the PFC as the safc just want cut the mustard once the stock injectors reach 100% duty cycle.

to answer Andrews (peakRPM) question the PFC would give a better power return due to it controlling both fuel and timing and having more mapping points.It would also allow you to do further mods more easily in the future such as bigger injectors, turbo etc.

[slayer]

skyzer33, can you give me some more info on your points?

Why is the boost control on the PFC crap, whats wrong with it?

And what do you mean 'manual advancement' of the timing?

Do you mean by change the AFM signal it inadvertantly causes some level of timing change, or does it actually have timing maps? I checked the website and it doesnt really talk about anything other than fuel mapping...

So what would you recommend - using a SAFC and an AVC-R together? I guess if its cheaper and easy to map than the PFC it would be an ok option as I dont plan on replacing the turbo with a different one (unless it lets go then I might jump up to something larger.. maybe).

Thanks for the info, I am still getting up to speed on this gear for the R33 - the WRX was great with a Unichip and boost module, but obviously the skyline is a different beast (and I really hate the self learning dribble with the factory ecu's part of my reasoning for wanting a replacement ecu rather than an intercept unit).

Ta

Conrad

[turbomad]

If you don't plan on replacing the turbo then go the SAFC. Remember if you go a large turbo you may have to change injectors and AFM which in turn will demand the fitment of the Power FC, it kind of snowballs in price at this stage. This is where I am at the moment, I'm looking for a suitable turbo that will run my injectors and AFM and ECU/SAFC to the max and if I can make 210rwkw then that's what I'll have to be happy with.

[slayer]

Can someone clarify what level of control over ignition timing the SAFC provides? I thought it purely controlled the AFM voltage level in an intercept function to trick the sotck ecu, so you are finitely limited by the fuel maps of the stock ecu and have to deal with the ecu 'learning', and potentially retarding the timing if detonation occurs.

I guess if the SAFC CAN do ignition timing I will look at it..

Ta

Conrad

[skyzerr33]

slayer

the safc tricks the ecu into thinking ur running stock fuel ratios which allows you to advance the timing without the ecu retarding it thats what i meant by manually adjusting the timing.

why the PFC boost add on is crap. it does its job well but there are some issues with it at higher boost levels. Plus the AVCR is better more features and has fuzzy logic.

[Pva_Glue]

buy the goods now and install them on arrival of your car slayer!

hehehhe

cheers

Joe

[2rismo]

the dyno charts of my car after install of PowerFC WITHOUT tuning jumped about 25rwhp...

After tuning saw more like 45rwhp.

At 12psi (controlled by Blitz Dual SBC), it turns 271.3hp/202kw @ rears.

Will post the dyno chart if i get a chance. Stock, plug-in, tune, re-tune are all on the same graph.

Cheers

[Blitz]

Power FC is the way to go, why half do it with an SAFC?

The gains and tuning ability of the power FC make it the better choice especially with the price you can pick them up for second hand these days.....

plug and play

[matlowth]

Slayer - The SAFC cannot do ignition control... That's why it's just a SAFC... IF you want ignition control then you'll have to get the ITC.

As someone who's used both (SAFC & Powerfc, (and even unichip)), I can tell you from experience that if you can afford to spend the extra $$$ you fork out for the powerfc is definitely worth it.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with the SAFC for a lightly tuned car with the standard injectors, just beware that it is an interceptor, and doesn't alter the overall tune, it effectively just alters the voltage the ecu see's that the AFM is sending it.

Oh - and the best feature of the powerfc, is you can tell if your car is pinging!

matt

Originally posted by slayer

Can someone clarify what level of control over ignition timing the SAFC provides? I thought it purely controlled the AFM voltage level in an intercept function to trick the sotck ecu, so you are finitely limited by the fuel maps of the stock ecu and have to deal with the ecu 'learning', and potentially retarding the timing if detonation occurs.

I guess if the SAFC CAN do ignition timing I will look at it..

Ta

Conrad

[2rismo]

Out of interest, mate, what does your knock readout go to on different types of fuel, fuel + octane booster etc...

Just interested.

Cheers.

[matlowth]

LOL - while I'm happy to tell you, my motor doesn't bear much resemblence to an RB25 anymore In any case... Most it'll usually go to is between 20-30 @ wot, with the occasional spike to 50, which is usually when I come off the throttle.

When I had my '25, it was about the same...

matt

Originally posted by 2rismo

Out of interest, mate, what does your knock readout go to on different types of fuel, fuel + octane booster etc...

Just interested.

Cheers.

[2rismo]

whut iz it now then?

Cheers