Turbo Upgrade Need Opinions/advice

[Tyranus]

So you want something that doesn't nose over @ 450rwkw++.

Looking at 25psi+, and all in by 5000rpm on a 2.6ltr?

Whilst still having a mid?

So your saying anything other than a gtx35 is over kill ? What a.r would you have to get 450 on 35gtx

[R31Nismoid]

What I'm saying is - What do you actually want - exactly?

Your posts conflict in terms of what you want, and what you are going to get.

I'm also assuming you aren't spending any more money on the motor so a sensible 8000-8200rpm limit given the basic build?

[Tyranus]

What i want exactly? A street monster GT-R with atleast 450awkw.. The laggiest i'd want it to be is full boost at 5000rpm depending on what turbo i end up with. I wont be touching the engine currently but i do intend on putting a 9L sump and a nitto oil pump sometime down the track. The car rev's to 8000rpm with relative ease, the absolute limit for me is 8500rpm with a N1 oil pump.. ive never taken it too 8500rpm during my ownership but with a big single i possibly might do it.

When i say at least 450awkw this is what i mean, if i get that figure with bucket loads of torque id prefer have that set-up rather than having 500awkw with less torque. For example I currently get full boost at 4500rpm with -5's so 500rpm of more lag wouldn't bother me if im going to make alot more power and torque while the car is on boost. And im absolutely am not afraid of high boost i cannot wait for it to be quiet honest. I hope i have been as clear as possible..

-I will be using E85

-I want 450awkw or more with E85 = Pushing the turbo's limit's

-If i only manage to get 450awkw with E85 but bucket loads of torque i'll be very pleased.

-Because the current setup can push 400awkw i do want alot more gains with a single turbo.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Sedat

[sydking]

stroker or 3L bottom end if i was going to spend that sort of money, Should really help with the before 5k issue aswell?

Surely you could push 450kw out of your -5s, come on song a bit earlier, save a fair chunk of money aswell

though if your heart is set on only what you want, Then id be taking 20 grand into one of the best workshops/tuners i could find and tell them exactally what youve said here. Job Done!!

Edited July 26, 2012 by sydking

[R31Nismoid]

When i say at least 450awkw this is what i mean, if i get that figure with bucket loads of torque id prefer have that set-up rather than having 500awkw with less torque. For example I currently get full boost at 4500rpm with -5's so 500rpm of more lag wouldn't bother me if im going to make alot more power and torque while the car is on boost. And im absolutely am not afraid of high boost i cannot wait for it to be quiet honest. I hope i have been as clear as possible..

-I will be using E85

-I want 450awkw or more with E85 = Pushing the turbo's limit's

-If i only manage to get 450awkw with E85 but bucket loads of torque i'll be very pleased.

-Because the current setup can push 400awkw i do want alot more gains with a single turbo.

Well for 1, your -5s are laggier than they should be... They will also put down more than 400 at the tyres if the setup is done correctly. Quite a few are 420-440 (which isn't far off your 450)

Anyway that aside, single - GTX35 is still a good choice from the results coming in. People are making near on 400rwkw with a GT35 - add the GTX in, bit more boost, bobs your uncle really.

If it only makes 440rwkw, just get the place to play with the figure to make you happy

[scotty nm35]

If it only makes 440rwkw, just get the place to play with the figure to make you happy

I sometimes wish he would, unfortunately Cihan doesn't want to be known as the happy dyno joint.

A gtx35 isnt going to get you over the 450kw mark in awd on that dyno, perhaps you should look at the GT37 if the number is that important?

[Tyranus]

Well for 1, your -5s are laggier than they should be... They will also put down more than 400 at the tyres if the setup is done correctly. Quite a few are 420-440 (which isn't far off your 450)

Anyway that aside, single - GTX35 is still a good choice from the results coming in. People are making near on 400rwkw with a GT35 - add the GTX in, bit more boost, bobs your uncle really.

If it only makes 440rwkw, just get the place to play with the figure to make you happy

My car isnt currently tuned therefore i assume it is more laggier than what it should be. I believe that my setup has been put together pretty well, although i dont go on boost very often because of the car being out of tune. I think i might max out the TT set up first and then go for a single.

I sometimes wish he would, unfortunately Cihan doesn't want to be known as the happy dyno joint.

A gtx35 isnt going to get you over the 450kw mark in awd on that dyno, perhaps you should look at the GT37 if the number is that important?

I just put that number as a ball mark, but yeah ive seen Cihan in action his very switched on. Do you ever take your car to Edge? I think ive seen it there you gave it abit of a squeeze as you left lol.

[R31Nismoid]

I sometimes wish he would, unfortunately Cihan doesn't want to be known as the happy dyno joint.

A gtx35 isnt going to get you over the 450kw mark in awd on that dyno, perhaps you should look at the GT37 if the number is that important?

lol my point was more than splitting hairs over 10rwkw doesn't mean much @ 440rwkw when you put a 5% variance on it for different dynos for instance

Plus a GTR isn't AWD... Dunno how many times I've said it. It's not a 50/50 split so the power loss is nothing like an EVO or WRX.

My car isnt currently tuned therefore i assume it is more laggier than what it should be. I believe that my setup has been put together pretty well, although i dont go on boost very often because of the car being out of tune. I think i might max out the TT set up first and then go for a single.

That would be a good start I think.

If you aren't happy - then look at dumping a whole wad of cash... But bear in mind you will be spending quite a major amount for say, 20-30rwkw extra.

Hence being fixated on a number can be your own worst enemy

[nomnomv8]

Get your e85 setup done first and sort the fuel side of things and go for a proper tune on your -5's you will be quiet suprised at the results.

As nismoid said I cant justify spending that much money for a whole new turbo + single turbo manifold + gate to change to something that will net you an extra 40kw at most. If I was in your shoes and going for a big single when Im already sitting at the low 400kw mark I would shoot for 500+ and dont expect blistering quick response, otherwise the twins will keep you more than happy.

Also what clutch and box are you running? Budget for this as well, especially the gearbox as OEM item's arent generally happy getting smashed at 8000rpm when your motor is making more than twice the power it came out of factory.

Edited July 27, 2012 by nomnomv8

[sydking]

My car isnt currently tuned therefore i assume it is more laggier than what it should be. I believe that my setup has been put together pretty well, although i dont go on boost very often because of the car being out of tune. I think i might max out the TT set up first and then go for a single.

I just put that number as a ball mark, but yeah ive seen Cihan in action his very switched on. Do you ever take your car to Edge? I think ive seen it there you gave it abit of a squeeze as you left lol.

how long have you ahve the -5s on and whats makes you want to change when you ahvent even had them tuned?

E85, Solid internals that you have, -5's on 25+psi should net you well into the 400+ kw range.

seeing as you have everything set up, get a tune done then see its real potiential before going the other route.

[scotty nm35]

I just put that number as a ball mark, but yeah ive seen Cihan in action his very switched on. Do you ever take your car to Edge? I think ive seen it there you gave it abit of a squeeze as you left lol.

He has tuned a few M35's, mine is the only white one though. I'm there every second weekend as I can't stop fiddling with my setup.

lol my point was more than splitting hairs over 10rwkw doesn't mean much @ 440rwkw when you put a 5% variance on it for different dynos for instance

Plus a GTR isn't AWD... Dunno how many times I've said it. It's not a 50/50 split so the power loss is nothing like an EVO or WRX.

My car runs r34 gtr drivetrain, other than the gearbox. As the transfer case is a clutch pack I would have thought it was a straight 50/50 split on power, but from my experience the dyno displays slightly more to the front wheels than that. No idea why.

As I stated earlier he sets up the Edge dyno with .7 correction in awd to keep it in line with other awd dyno's in the area. As he runs the rwd cars at .9 for the same reason you will lose 20% off the bat in AWD. Bit of a pita for me as I swap rwd/awd constantly, and makes it hard to know what the gains are.

[Tyranus]

lol my point was more than splitting hairs over 10rwkw doesn't mean much @ 440rwkw when you put a 5% variance on it for different dynos for instance

Plus a GTR isn't AWD... Dunno how many times I've said it. It's not a 50/50 split so the power loss is nothing like an EVO or WRX.

That would be a good start I think.

If you aren't happy - then look at dumping a whole wad of cash... But bear in mind you will be spending quite a major amount for say, 20-30rwkw extra.

Hence being fixated on a number can be your own worst enemy

True that about being fixated on a number it does do your head in. I will go for 400awkw with my -5's or as high as it will then i will go down the single route.

Get your e85 setup done first and sort the fuel side of things and go for a proper tune on your -5's you will be quiet suprised at the results.

As nismoid said I cant justify spending that much money for a whole new turbo + single turbo manifold + gate to change to something that will net you an extra 40kw at most. If I was in your shoes and going for a big single when Im already sitting at the low 400kw mark I would shoot for 500+ and dont expect blistering quick response, otherwise the twins will keep you more than happy.

Also what clutch and box are you running? Budget for this as well, especially the gearbox as OEM item's arent generally happy getting smashed at 8000rpm when your motor is making more than twice the power it came out of factory.

Your absolutely right about the Price vs Result it a very expensive step. I will properly go with a stroker kit when i go down the single turbo route. Yeap i know that stock gearboxes are notorious for blowing up, my gearbox is stock with a twin plate clutch and i know without a doubt that i will blow it up. Gearbox will be definitely upgraded when it blows up.

how long have you ahve the -5s on and whats makes you want to change when you ahvent even had them tuned?

E85, Solid internals that you have, -5's on 25+psi should net you well into the 400+ kw range.

seeing as you have everything set up, get a tune done then see its real potiential before going the other route.

I havent had the -5's for to long, but i have been in single turbo skylines and it just blew my mind lol. As i said before im going to max out TT set up first then i will be going single.

[Tyranus]

He has tuned a few M35's, mine is the only white one though. I'm there every second weekend as I can't stop fiddling with my setup.

My car runs r34 gtr drivetrain, other than the gearbox. As the transfer case is a clutch pack I would have thought it was a straight 50/50 split on power, but from my experience the dyno displays slightly more to the front wheels than that. No idea why.

As I stated earlier he sets up the Edge dyno with .7 correction in awd to keep it in line with other awd dyno's in the area. As he runs the rwd cars at .9 for the same reason you will lose 20% off the bat in AWD. Bit of a pita for me as I swap rwd/awd constantly, and makes it hard to know what the gains are.

Yeah it was more than likely to be you. My car is a regular over there aswell white 32 with xd9's. The car "feels" faster when i flick it into RWD mode from a rolling start, it "feels" like it pulls alot harder esp in 3rd and 4th but it could be my mind fooling me.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sedat

[R31Nismoid]

Definitely your mind, in 4th there is hardly any power being sent to the front.

Off the line however totally different. It'll also feel faster rolling as there is no forward pull, its all rear push

Anyway have a crack at what you have, go for a belt in the hills, post results/thoughts

[Tyranus]

I will definitely post up a dyno sheet and share my thoughts as future reference for others.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sedat

[scotty nm35]

Definitely your mind, in 4th there is hardly any power being sent to the front.

Perhaps GTR's run a different controller, in awd the Stagea definitely runs around 50% (4th gear wot) according to the dyno.

On the road could be different, perhaps the gtr doesn't work off engine load but more Gforce from the sensor?

[R31Nismoid]

Yeah but what is the torque gauge actually doing?

It's definitely tied into the G-Sensors as it has a fit if one isn't working right (similar to fitting ETS controllers and adjusting how it works).

Perhaps yours is more full-time. Would be very interesting if it was, and I've learned my interesting piece of info for the day

[sydking]

ATTESA E-TS system is used in the following models:

R32 and R33 (1989-1997) GTS4 Skyline

GT-R - 1989–2003

Nissan Stagea

A31 Cefiro

1997-2003 Infiniti QX4

Infiniti G35x/G37x/Nissan Skyline (V35 & V36)

Infiniti M35x/45x/37x/56x/Nissan Fuga

Infiniti FX

Infiniti EX/Nissan Skyline Crossover (with Active Brake Limited Split for side-to-side torque split, as needed)

Nissan Cedric (Gloria\Cedric with RB25DET engine)

ATTESA E-TS Pro system is used in the following models:

R33 (1995-1997) Nissan Skyline GT-R (offered as a factory option)

R33 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-spec

R34 (1998-2002) Nissan Skyline GT-R (all models)

ATTESA E-TS Pro (GT-R version) is used in the following model(s).

2008+ Nissan GT-R

Edited July 27, 2012 by sydking

[SimonR32]

Perhaps GTR's run a different controller, in awd the Stagea definitely runs around 50% (4th gear wot) according to the dyno.

On the road could be different, perhaps the gtr doesn't work off engine load but more Gforce from the sensor?

That's because on the dyno the ATESSA is thinking the car is constantly wheelspinning so it sends power to the fronts. On the road unless you are making big power you will not be getting a speed difference from front to back wheels

[GTSBoy]

That's because on the dyno the rears actually are always spinning. That's where most of the "lost" power on a chassis dyno goes.