Installing Front Camber Arms And Radius Rods? R34

[GTSBoy]

Whist that bolt looks to be "genuine", in that it appears to be basically the same as mine and clearly are factory - ie not modified.....they are different. The smaller diameter section should not extend much behind the threads. I suspect yours might be from something else.

[V28VX37]

That's strange if yours is different. I bought the car bog stock with zero mods so it's fairly unlikely these bolts only would've been swapped from something else, especially since they line up perfectly inside the OEM rods and crush tubes... Perhaps R34's has different bolts in different versions or model years, who knows?

Anyhow, off to the bolt shop, or a machinist if it comes to that..

[IMPORTS ONLY]

im also installing adjustable front camber arms and radius rods on my ENR34 at the moment which is the 4wd non turbo model, i was told by just jap and found out first hand that there is variations of the actual part as well as some of the screws and bolts used in the front suspension area (variations in lengths of the screws on the end of the radius rods ect), but as for the one you taped im pretty sure thats the same throughout the models besides maybe a GTR, and both sides of the aftermarket radius rod should have about the same amount of play in them regardless of if you tape it or not because even though theres a step down at the end of it it sits deep enough for it not to affect it?

anyway once i finish putting mine on ill let you if i have the same issue or not

[V28VX37]

im also installing adjustable front camber arms and radius rods on my ENR34 at the moment which is the 4wd non turbo model, i was told by just jap and found out first hand that there is variations of the actual part as well as some of the screws and bolts used in the front suspension area (variations in lengths of the screws on the end of the radius rods ect), but as for the one you taped im pretty sure thats the same throughout the models besides maybe a GTR, and both sides of the aftermarket radius rod should have about the same amount of play in them regardless of if you tape it or not because even though theres a step down at the end of it it sits deep enough for it not to affect it?

...

anyway once i finish putting mine on ill let you if i have the same issue or no

Cool, thanks man, keep us posted.

In my case it feels that there's definitely more play at the outer end of the bolt, that's why I tried taping it up. But yeah I'll see if I can organise a replacement bolt from somewhere and post an update.

There's also the possibility that it's not the radius rods but the camber arms instead that are being noisy ... I probably wouldn't have bothered with the aftermarket gear had I know what a pain they can be

[GTSBoy]

Well, the first rule about rose jointed suspension arms is that they are generally bloody noisy. There is a lot of extra clack and rattle that comes from them directly, and they transmit abotu 1000% more road noise. The only ones I have on my car are the caster rods, and they are pretty quiet. You can pick the extra noise out immediately on the first drive after fitting them, but it's not a lot.

If it wasn't for teh slightly dodgy bolts, I wouldn't have thought to blame your caster rods given that you also fitted arms. The upper arms should be bloody noisy.

[V28VX37]

Well, the first rule about rose jointed suspension arms is that they are generally bloody noisy. There is a lot of extra clack and rattle that comes from them directly, and they transmit abotu 1000% more road noise. The only ones I have on my car are the caster rods, and they are pretty quiet. You can pick the extra noise out immediately on the first drive after fitting them, but it's not a lot.

If it wasn't for teh slightly dodgy bolts, I wouldn't have thought to blame your caster rods given that you also fitted arms. The upper arms should be bloody noisy.

Yeah I know, read a lot about the increased NVH before I put them in...

What I don't get though is why the front camber arms should be that noisy, it's only the inner (chassis) bushes that change from the factory rubber bushes to polyurethane. There are no rose joints and the main bushing in the upright is still the original rubber one. Who knows..

I think what I'll do next is put back the OEM radius rod on one side and see if that silences it, just to work out which part is at fault.

[V28VX37]

(Double post)

Edited July 17, 2013 by V28VX37

[GTSBoy]

Sorry mate. I'd forgotten that your upper arms weren't rose jointed. If they have bushes then the most likely reason for them to be noisy is excessive slop between the through bolts and the crush tubes. Either that or the bushes are too short and can slide back and forth along the bolt. You'd be able to see/feel that sort of misbehaviour though.

[V28VX37]

Sorry mate. I'd forgotten that your upper arms weren't rose jointed. If they have bushes then the most likely reason for them to be noisy is excessive slop between the through bolts and the crush tubes. Either that or the bushes are too short and can slide back and forth along the bolt. You'd be able to see/feel that sort of misbehaviour though.

^^^ interesting, I never thought of that. If the radius rod bolt is not a 100% fit maybe the same goes for the the upper arm bolts too ... I better check em. That would definitely cause a clonk on braking/accelerating.

There's gotta be a better way to 'thicken' bolts than electrical tape though Additional metal sleeves perhaps, or custom crush tubes.

Edit: I just remembered that there's different versions of the radius rods for S14/S15/R33/R34 and S13/A31/Z32/R32 - I wonder if I've got the wrong type??

Edited July 17, 2013 by V28VX37

[V28VX37]

Ok so I pulled the SRI radius rods out and put the OEMs back in, no more noise. Therefore, the camber arms are fine, lucky that.

The diagnosis is that the radius rods either have the wrong type crush tubes, or the the product is just no good. I had a proper look this time with the parts out and there's maybe a 0.5mm difference in the crush tube bore diameter between the SRI bits and the OEM one. In the photos below you can see how the taped up bolt goes through the aftermarket crush tube no worries but doesn't fit inside the original one.

The way the aftermarket rods are put together there are several possible causes for slack and noise due to bad tolerances:

1. Between the bolt and the crush tube – this is the biggest worry
2. Between the two-part crush tube and the inside of the rose joint – this doesn't feel 100% tight either, and having the crush tube in two separate parts doesn't help
3. The ball swivel itself – this feels ok

I will contact the supplier but if there's no fix I'll just get rubber bushed aftermarket rods instead. What a PITA for such a simple upgrade, not to mention having to re-align yet again...

...

For future reference, the R34 GTT '98 radius rod bolt specs are as follows (see photo below):

• 14mm stem section – length 56mm
• 12mm tip section – length about 40mm
• total length 100mm

[GTSBoy]

I have Tein rods. They fit the bolts snugly. Piss the SRI ones off and if you can't get working replacements, go for an established brand (at least as far as these rods are concerned established).

[V28VX37]

I have Tein rods. They fit the bolts snugly. Piss the SRI ones off and if you can't get working replacements, go for an established brand (at least as far as these rods are concerned established).

Yep I reckon that's the way to go. Thanks for your help mate.

[IMPORTS ONLY]

finally got around to putting mine in, was easy as and i have no extra noise or play what so ever, cant even notice that there are different arms in when i drive it, there both SRI as well. maybe you purchased the wrong radius rods? i have to buy GTR radius rods even though i have a GT (because of the 4WD atessa)

[V28VX37]

finally got around to putting mine in, was easy as and i have no extra noise or play what so ever, cant even notice that there are different arms in when i drive it, there both SRI as well. maybe you purchased the wrong radius rods? i have to buy GTR radius rods even though i have a GT (because of the 4WD atessa)

Good to hear! Yeah mine might be the wrong type, or just a bad batch, who knows.

Anyway I've given up on them and just bought a pair of Hardrace rubber bushed adjustable rods, same as the blue ones in this pic (from this thread).

I hope their tolerances are better, will keep you posted.

[V28VX37]

I just put the Hardrace ones in over the weekend, they're just as smooth as the OEM rubber bushed ones but adjustable. Winning.

Moral of the story: Check (bolt) tolerances before putting your aftermarket parts in the car. Saves a lot of hassle.

Here's how the three alternatives compare (SRI, Hardrace, OEM):

Hardrace installed:

[IMPORTS ONLY]

good to hear you got it sorted, i was just wondering how tight did you do up your front upper camber bolts on the inside next to the coilovers? do you want them so tight that you can barley move them up and down when the outer bolts not in or just tight enough so they can still move fairly freely

[GTSBoy]

There are crush tubes involved, so it doesn't matter how tight* you do up the fasteners, the bush should still be free to pivot.

*Unless you can superhumanly do them up sufficient to deform the crush tube.

[IMPORTS ONLY]

i did one side up a little tighter and it restricts the movement a little but not completely, so im just going to drive it for a day or two and see if i can notice any difference in the sides

[GTSBoy]

It might be pushing the sides of the chassis mount up against the ends of the polyurethane bush. If you get in there with a torch you might be able to see if there is any clearance or if the bush is firmly in contact with the clamping surface. If it is firmly in contact, you could try smearing some moly grease in there to see if that changes how "tight" it gets when you torque up the fasteners. If it does relieve the tightness, then that's your diagnosis.

On my R32 I have adjustable Whiteline poly bushes in the original arms, and I installed grease nipples between the two halves of the bush at each end of the arm. As a result there is always plenty of grease available at the same point I'm suggesting you might be getting friction, and so I have no issue with restriction of pivoting movement. Hence my initial thought that the crush tubes should take all the squish and not allow anything else to get "tight".

[V28VX37]

good to hear you got it sorted, i was just wondering how tight did you do up your front upper camber bolts on the inside next to the coilovers? do you want them so tight that you can barley move them up and down when the outer bolts not in or just tight enough so they can still move fairly freely

That sounds strange. I did mine as tight as I could with a medium size ratchet, which did not restrict the movement at all as I can recall.

There are crush tubes involved, so it doesn't matter how tight* you do up the fasteners, the bush should still be free to pivot. ...

Yeah that's what I would have thought.

Imports Only, if it doesn't feel right what I would suggest is pulling the arm out and checking the crush tube measurements against the OEM part. It only needs to be a fraction of a mm short to cause what you're describing. I have little faith left in cheapie aftermarket parts given my experience with the SRI rods...