R35 Gtr Air Flow Meter The New Z32 Afm

[discopotato03]

I think you'll find that what they wanted to measure in a MAF sensor was ambient air temperature and from their own test development they would have had a fair idea what charge temps were anyway . In a factory std car they use protection devices to stop engines detonating and road cars generally can't legally spend a lot of time on full load . Its possibly why Nissan engines were famous for rich and retard when in danger Will Robinson mode .

Obviously race cars a production homologation specials had to be able to compensate for longer periods of full load use and would have air temp sensors to allow compensations .

In a MAP load based system you don't have a choice because a pressure sensor is oblivious to temperature and you need to know temperature to calculate density . To have a repeatable air to fuel ratio you need to know mass units of air so you can add mass units of fuel to to get a mass units ratio .

A .

[R31Nismoid]

I always thought Nissan were a little mad to use the pre turbo temp signal from the afm for correction, especially as the Stagea runs 1 bar stock.

If there were no calculations going on inside there would be no reason to complicate the sensor with the electronics. What is the failure rate of the GTR afm's now they are getting older?

Interestingly (semi on topic) the AMS AFMs they move to near the throttles in their kits.

Reading the AMS forums the amount of issues they are having with stalling and backfiring seems like it could be more trouble than it's worth (using that positioning). Just something else to think about given people at times to move AFM to the post cooler region. Maybe they are a tad more sensitive to pressure, hard to say as I've not read much more.

[Tai1or Made]

Pulled from Speedhunters.

You can also add R35 airflow meters if you want, a great way of getting the best out of Nissan’s legendary straight-6. Following an ECU remap you can expect better throttle response, more low-end torque, marginally more power, better fuel economy and emissions. This is all down to the better atomization the 12-hole injectors offer, as well as their higher precision at any given duty cycle. They are 570 cc/min so perfect for a nice and reliable 600 HP tune with upgraded turbos and cams.

http://www.speedhunt...9/rs-meeting-2/

[R31Nismoid]

^ when using R35 injectors.

You forgot to include that bit of text

[Tai1or Made]

Ahhh thanks Ash.

Hence why I linked.

Cause I'm useless.

[1400r]

^ when using R35 injectors.

You forgot to include that bit of text

I sure there things there quoting are not only due to the injector change

have you actually looked at any of the links I posted up or yashio's/hpi's website

or are you just blindly saying I know better than Japanese tuners

http://www.phoenixs..../rb26dett_4.htm

http://minesstuff.bl...-entry-191.html

http://ameblo.jp/car...1159196435.html

http://ameblo.jp/kan...1337407217.html

so mines phoenix power kansai service center as well doing them

"There is no change in the maximum output by replacing the air flow meter, for various corrections with respect to the change goes into precise throttle response is improved."

Edited September 19, 2012 by 1400r

[R31Nismoid]

I sure there things there quoting are not only due to the injector change

Well unless you are reading a different article entirely - this one says:

Following an ECU remap you can expect better throttle response, more low-end torque, marginally more power, better fuel economy and emissions. This is all down to the better atomization the 12-hole injectors offer, as well as their higher precision at any given duty cycle.

The article says nothing what so ever about the AFM offering or having anything to do with that.

So basicially the R35 injectors is aking to a ID1000cc vs a Sard 800cc injector discussion. The Sard are older tech, and compared with the new tech IDs there is an advantage - this is a product that would actually improve performance, and it does. So good on the article for clearly articulating that in regards to R35 injectors, even if you don't understand.

Also note how it says marginally more power. I don't think 40rwkw @ 3500rpm on a 200rwkw setup is... "marginal". It's clearly showing you had the most obvious of problems BEFORE you touched the R35 AFM, so you've fixeda problem via a part change... As opposed to improvinga setup via a part change.

There is a clear and distinct difference here that you don't seem to want to accept and for the benefit of all users it needs to be highlighted so they can not potentially not expect your results on their setups, in fact it's almost a certainty they won't.

[R31Nismoid]

Oh and on your point about business.

They are in business to make money - simple as that.

A business make products that they will always claim 'innovate' and thus provide 'new' products to keep their companies fresh, selling new products to consumers with things that they tell you "will give you performance increases", even if they don't as we've seen many times over.

Manufacturers have been saying products they sell "improve this, upgrade that" for many years. Look at FPRs, BOVs, fuel rails, turbos, air filters, hard pipe kits and so on.

Are they are indeed an 'upgrade'? Technically yes.

Do they actually offer a beneficial performance increase? Depending on the situation - No.

[1400r]

ok mate we disagree

I've done testing and agree with the Japanese tuners my car drives much better after the swap

no idle down issues any more, crisper throttle response and much more linear than before (not related to power from what I can tell)

not really a measureable result so I guess we are stuck disagreeing

on the speedhunters article I'm not sure a simple 1 line from the "reporter" explain's why there using the 35 afm as well

because it doesn't go into it at all

consumers aren't going to spend extra $ just for nothing

I suspect if asked directly they would quote the same thing yashio and hpi etc do

Edited September 19, 2012 by 1400r

[R31Nismoid]

I'm not disagring on the topic of there are no gains (or there are). I'm saying that your testing is so badly & obviously flawed they cannot be quantified in this thread. I'm genuinely shocked that you cannot see that.

Consumers spend $ all day for nothing. It's called discretionary spending, go and have a read on the principle. Anyone that have a BOV on a stock car has spend money for nothing (for example).

I'd believe an independant product assessment over a company marketed one any day of the week.

[SS8_Gohan]

Midori has been doing this for a while.... i think i might be able to dig up some before vs after dyno graphs...

[1400r]

the test is flawed because you don't agree with the results?

if the tune was reviewed/maximised with z32 afm

and then tuned with the 35 afm what more was I meant to?

anyway lets move on the power difference that was never the main claim or even the point

if your unhappy with that time to put up your $ like I did to do some more testing

the whole point is they work (up to 300rwkw in 80mm pipe useful info I think)

are cheaper blah blah blah

interesting that they use early gtr afm sizing with no issue's?

I guess it makes then bolton though

http://ameblo.jp/kaz...0040852394.html

found this blog post with dyno

just for interest not trying to say anything as finding dyno's is difficult

http://www.midorisei...og/category_70/

bottom one with the white r34 gtr is just with 35 gtr afm not injectors as well

car actually makes less power than on page 2 were it show a pre 35 afm dyno

this is due to less boost though from what I can make out

seem to also mention reverb always happen's and create's bad fuel economy

35 afm fix this as there 1 way in there words

Edited September 19, 2012 by 1400r

[R31Nismoid]

the test is flawed because you don't agree with the results?

And this is why you will never understand what I'm trying to say. You do not understand what it means to do a good test.

I'd imagine most others will comprehend and hopefully decide accordingly or wait for someone to actually do a proper test on a properly working setup before/after for some actually useful information.

[1400r]

I get it you "know" the 40rwkw gain means something was wrong with my car before

not sure what else I could have done car ran fine before apart from the idle down issue

magic powers are always hard to beat but here goes

what you don't get is that it doesn't matter either way I wasn't trying to prove the air flow meter swap will make more power

no ones going to post result with responses like this you have to retune to car to suit so any gains or losses the tune can be pointed at

I can delete the dyno pics if you like seems it would solve the problem?

Edited September 19, 2012 by 1400r

[rob82]

I get it you "know" the 40rwkw gain means something was wrong with my car before

not sure what else I could have done car ran fine before apart from the idle down issue

magic powers are always hard to beat but here goes

what you don't get is that it doesn't matter either way I wasn't trying to prove the air flow meter swap will make more power

no ones going to post result with responses like this you have to retune to car to suit so any gains or losses the tune can be pointed at

I can delete the dyno pics if you like seems it would solve the problem?

I think what ash is trying to say is that if you have a perfectly tuned car running a z32 and convert to an r35 sensor in 80mm pipe and retune you will not pick up any power(in a single turbo/afm combination).

Believe me I've tested so many aftermarket parts that don't work. My view from being a tuner is that if you can change a part and gain nothing in just changing the part over it is unlikely that tuning will make any difference....

Note I've run a single 85mm delco maf sensor up to 14000hz making close to 400rwkw (harrop sc ls1)and done nothing but remove the intake pipe, so "unrestricted" 90mm intake and mafless tuned and I gained no hp what so ever....

[zebra]

Rob I'd like to pick your brains re: some delco stuff

Pm incoming

[WMDC35]

i also made no gain in hp removing z32, using g4-map sensor and 100mm intake pipe at around 300kw, car does make 50 more kw now but its from boost

[DVS JEZ]

Exactly. Its the parts on the car that make the power.

Like people that rebuild a motor and re use the stock turbo and wonder why it makes the same power as before but they just spent 6k on the motor.

But i agree that deiveability can be gained from a more precise measuring sensor ie AFM,

I tried some NISMO copy AFM's 2 weeks ago, they were very coarse down low so idle and low load was very erratic, wanting to stall and stumble.

But if the R35 GTR afm can improve on the already proven Z32 AFM. Would be good to see

[1400r]

nah it'll make more power guys that's what I've been saying the whole time

over it close thread please

[paulr33]

if you change nothing else other than the airflow meter i cant see how it adds power