Rd28 Development

[Sampo]

G’day

I’ve recently discovered after a chat on the phone to the EPA, that Diesel engines are pretty much exempt from the pollution laws, which have been driving me up the wall with EPA notices now becoming a regular appearance in the mail. So while its still a late night crack fuelled idea and its relatively fresh in my head im wondering what it would take to extract some kind of respectable power from a diesel engine. Something around the 200-230rwkw mark with the torque to suit would be a nice start.

From what i gather this kind of high performance diesel tuning is more common in Europe with people using the CDI Mercedes diesel engines to produce power figures in excess of 500hp. An example of which is this is:

That smoke, with that noise coming from a skyline would surely get the emotions flowing.

The engine im particularly interested in is the Nissan RD28 given its similarity to the RB30 block it would be the ideal transplant engine if such a conversion were to take place. However its lack of performance in standard from means it would need some major work to get it moving.

Given i’ve never really been interested in these motors,. Im a little unclear on how to even tackle such a project, i take it that its going to need a modified diesel pump, but what about injectors? and as for the compression ratio, do you need to lower it when trying to run 2-3bar of boost?

[BigBoyDan]

Same engine mounts and bell housing

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/gu-conversion-rd28-out-rb25det-20229/

[R31Nismoid]

If you are getting EPA problems, why don't you just put on a proper exhaust?

Cost you less than a RB28 conversion IMO, and you can still keep ~300rwkw in a RB25 no drama at all really. 40min swap if you do get pinned, which if you have a decent build exhaust, won't happen in the first place

[jiffo]

Mate your EPA info is way off.

Diesels have just the same hassles with emissions as petrol engines, plus they have the particulate problem solved with either Ad-Blu or the ecu controlled particulate filter on the exhaust.

And complicated, all the same inputs as your petrol engine, AFM, TPS, Crank angle, cam angle, injector needle lift sensor, coolant temp sensor, fuel temp sensor, inlet air temp........just to name a few.

Next add our poor quality diesel to a CRD and you're in all sorts of trouble.

Your choice of the old Rd28 is such a dreadful example. Sure the bellhousing will bolt up but what an archaic engine design, it's got pre-combustion chambers FFS!!!!!

It was fitted as the taxi engine in some 33's and others but it's truly a turd.

Single OHC and not even a cross flow head.

There are much better engines around than this old lump.

[GTRsean]

Just put a dohc head on it and boost it with a compound turbo setup, then let us know how it went.

[Sampo]

hahaha fair enough then, the thought atleast gave me a smile.

[Sampo]

Quick question. How do they get the fuel into the cylinder? from what ive seen the injector rail atleast on the RD is on the exhaust side of the head.

[jiffo]

The Rd28 Patrol guys go to an Rb25 or a 25/30 when the Rd craps itself.

They're just so expensive to overhaul for so little output.

By far the most common failing is a loose balancer which damages the crank. After that would be cracked head due to overheating because the driver continually has the foot flat to the floor.

The Gu has a special 3-bolt turbo flange so you won't find anything decent off the shelf. The Gq has a "normal" 4-bolt flange. They're your typical ceramic turbo but being a diesel they don't work too hard.

Now the funny thing is if you've got an Rd that is problem free, you can buy a $200 "donator" chip which is a real improvement. Add a full 3" exhaust and a better dump, wind up the boost and it will get up and go.

They'll rev out to 5000 smooth as glass, nothing happening below 2000 of course but still when the smoke clears, people will ask, "What the hell was in that thing."

Then if you've got money to burn, drop in a V8 Duramax with Allison box. Add some boost and there's not much that will come close.

[jiffo]

Quick question. How do they get the fuel into the cylinder? from what ive seen the injector rail atleast on the RD is on the exhaust side of the head.

The injectors on an Rd28 are on the driver's side of the head.

It's not a cross flow head so both the inlet and exhaust manifolds are on the same side, that's the passenger side.

They also have the glow plugs beside the injectors just to add to the hassles.

[Chris Rogers]

on a parallel point what about a later 3lt 4 pot ?

had this idea kicking around for a while now. I know the first ones were hand grenades but the later ones seemed to go alright and seemed reliable and if memory is correct you can flash them.

agree with the 7.3 lt duramax comment - seen a few of those and they went VERY well with A ton of jet boat behind them.

[jiffo]

Nope the CRD's are starting to go. Has taken a bit longer than the DI's but with the hopeless engine management trying to hold the variable vane turbo it was inevitable.

Mind you there will always be the odd trouble free vehicle with high milage, but they're rare. Thanks a lot Mr Renault.

Go to the Patrol forum and see the monitoring gear those blokes fit, AND watch very carefully in the hope of preserving their egg shell. A bit like driving a steam engine with a rusted out boiler.

Again an engine with ceramic glow plugs in the combustion chamber. Lose the tip and there goes your bore, ring lands and soon after, the piston.

No apparent reason, out of the 4-plugs, one or two will be perfect, the others have been eaten. Must be nice for the turbo too.

My theory is the clock angle of the pintle valve, some must be spraying directly onto the glow.

Patrol is still the cheapest large 4X so there's a huge market, especially the 80kph speed limited grey nomads.

Anyone who's experienced the Patrol death wobble can imagine those old arthritic knuckles gripping the wheel, I give them a very wide berth.

They don't want the resale value of their vehicle to diminish, thus you don't get the true story from a forum, have to visit some workshops and mention the dirty ZD30 word.

I see guys in Spain are "improving" the engine by chucking the balance shafts, using a conventional wastegate turbo plus loads of other work............. but it's hard to get a nice shine on a turd, hey.

Meanwhile you can buy a 4-cylinder Isuzu or a Cummins that just works, not the head-in-the-sand Nissan approach.

With a different but extremely common fault, check this happy customer.

[Chris Rogers]

yep I remember that one. local dealer had a few 100 of them they were doing the swap on.

[msports180]

Nope the CRD's are starting to go. Has taken a bit longer than the DI's but with the hopeless engine management trying to hold the variable vane turbo it was inevitable. Mind you there will always be the odd trouble free vehicle with high milage, but they're rare. Thanks a lot Mr Renault. Go to the Patrol forum and see the monitoring gear those blokes fit, AND watch very carefully in the hope of preserving their egg shell. A bit like driving a steam engine with a rusted out boiler. Again an engine with ceramic glow plugs in the combustion chamber. Lose the tip and there goes your bore, ring lands and soon after, the piston. No apparent reason, out of the 4-plugs, one or two will be perfect, the others have been eaten. Must be nice for the turbo too. My theory is the clock angle of the pintle valve, some must be spraying directly onto the glow. Patrol is still the cheapest large 4X so there's a huge market, especially the 80kph speed limited grey nomads. Anyone who's experienced the Patrol death wobble can imagine those old arthritic knuckles gripping the wheel, I give them a very wide berth. They don't want the resale value of their vehicle to diminish, thus you don't get the true story from a forum, have to visit some workshops and mention the dirty ZD30 word. I see guys in Spain are "improving" the engine by chucking the balance shafts, using a conventional wastegate turbo plus loads of other work............. but it's hard to get a nice shine on a turd, hey. Meanwhile you can buy a 4-cylinder Isuzu or a Cummins that just works, not the head-in-the-sand Nissan approach. With a different but extremely common fault, check this happy customer.

Wow your a big ZD30 fan hey? The later model CRD's do not have as many problems as the DI's, but still not a performance option in anyway.

To get power out a diesel Nissan Engine you need the TD42, then take out your wallet, remove what you think it would cost, then double it.

Duramax 6.6 ltr FTW, 500rwhp + 1000nm's of torque and 8-9ltrs per 100k's on 37" tyres in a full weight patrol, yes please.

[jiffo]

No I'm not a ZD30 fan, but truth be told I'm not too fussed on the Patrol.

Really Nisan's attitude to the ZD30 is atrocious. I feel for the poor buggers who buy into one of these and then are stuck with it.

See yet another guy on the Patrol forum trying to decide whether to fix or flog off, always the same dilemma.

Toss in another ZD for around $10k or go for the Duramax at $20k min. Over capitilizing perhaps????

LS1 also makes a lot of sense but why should owners have to go through any of this hassle with a relatively new vehicle.

Haven't even mentioned the 5th gear fails and the usual DMF dramas, bent front axle beam........

Getting a tad off topic.

[copycutter]

Isn't there a guy on these forums that has recently put a diesel based block with an RB head and a GT50 series turbo into an r32 body? FAT GTR or something like that...

[Tai1or Made]

Someone PLEASE put a TD42 into a Skyline.

Soot throwing Skyline FTW.

[jiffo]

I tossed an Rb30 head gasket onto an Rd28 block a while ago, you'd need your own machine shop to get those two to line up.

Unsure if the 28 crank can fit in the 30 block either, really couldn't be bothered.

There's plenty of much easier options around.

Isn't there a guy on these forums that has recently put a diesel based block with an RB head and a GT50 series turbo into an r32 body? FAT GTR or something like that...

[copycutter]

It's the 1st car in this pic thread - the purple pearlescent r32 with the big bonnet scoop.

http://www.boostcruising.com.au/forums/index.php?showtopic=2134749

They go on to discuss the mods further down and that the bonnet choice is only just because it's been completed and the regular bonnet wouldn't close over the taller engine.

[jiffo]

Interesting.

But an Rd28 is 85 bore x 83 stroke.

To use that same stroke and still make the 3.5 litres claimed you're around 95 bore which would be hard to achieve on a 28, so I guess it's also stroked?

Why not just go the 30 route as per Rob? He's achieved fantastic numbers from very ordinary components.

Think there's more to this build than the Boost article mentions.