Questions For The Maths Gurus

[Revhead]

You should have just had a ridiculously high blood alcohol reading or stolen the car, you would've been given a slap on the wrist and been left to do it again. But you were speeding, omg, you're a menace to society Talk about uneven penalties...

As someone said before, I think if you can prove that their reading is inaccurate the whole case can be thrown out - if that reading was inaccurate, how can they prove that you were doing any other speed? I too applaud your moral stance on this, though if you can avoid losing your license over what is, in reality, a minor infringement, go for it. They've still made their "point", and noone has been unduly disadvantaged. The current police/court idea of going for blood and making examples of relatively minor offences disgusts me.

[riggaP]

You can't be your own expert in your own court trial, the expert would be baised.

You are a goose....

[browny]

My question is, do the police even need any sort of reading or can they just estimate your speed and base the fine on that?

I have heard the latter is true and if this is the case I would think it difficult to have the fine overturned.

However, without knowing the details of your situation (or the finer points of the law), anything I add is just meaningless guesswork (and there seems to be a enough of that in the thread already so why add more).

[Guest INASNT]

Fistly Zagan yes it is quite obivious that u aint a lawyer or understand my situation coz 99% of what you said is wrong or has no relevance to my situation.

Yes i am an engineer but with the courts i would have to be an automotive expert

to give evidence as an expert (yes it can be done zagan) but since i work with hydro electric and natural gas powerstations the court sees it as having no relevance. I also thought i could use info like tests from wheels as evidence but they wont accept it as evidence unless the actual person who wrote the article or piece of evidence you are presenting is present and can be questioned by the prosecution, which costs alot of $$ which i aint gonna bother spending.

Revhead

Yes if i was drunk or had stolen the car i would have got off easier as there is nothing in the legistation about the sentance and its upto the judges discression to apply a sentance on the evidence presented to him and any other previous law breaking you may have done in the past. But with speeding in the ***ed up vic legisation it states if you are going x amount over the speed limit you loose your license for x amount of time no matter what the situation or if its your first offence (which is was after 8 years driving for me) so the judge cant make any decision of his own and has to follow this legistation on the speed over you were going, so its totally ***ed up.

All the other guys thanks for the support but if i get off with only 6 months loss of license it will be sort of a win coz i have nearly no hope of getting out of it totally unless i had another person with me in the car and there was only 1 cop not 2 giving evidence.

[GTRgeoff]

The only other choice then is get the official factory specs for the car in question regarding performance. Simply write a letter and give a bogus reason and GMH should release the information. Have it on GMH letterhead if possible. You then have the physics and maths skills to turn it into usable information.

Can't see how the jugde could ignore your university qualifications but if so I have spent a fair part of my time as Program engineer for out Light Armoured Vehicle fleet so being automotive based would allow expert testimony due to applied knowledge on top of Mechanical Engineering degree.

[Guest INASNT]

Update.

Had my day in the county court yesterday and without even having to go through court case I got my sentence down to 6 months loss of license from 12 and fine down to $300 from $460.

It was quite funny coz I was going through the evidence with my lawyer in one of the interview rooms near the court room I was going to be in and we saw bitch face and other copper walk past and look in coz we had the door open a bit. We had all photos and other docs we were talking about. My lawyer then went to the court room to check what time I was going to be needed in there and the coppers approached my lawyer and asked why I had taken it so far as the county court so he said I want to get the sentence down to a lower loss of license and I was going to fight it until I did. They then started a little chit chat about why I was fighting it etc and I was not going to accept 12 months. He then came back in smiling saying what happened and that the coppers seemed to be a bit edgy because neither of them had been to the county court to give evidence before and they seemed nervous and did not want to be there coz they knew we had extra evidence this time and knew I was not going to let them walk all over me.

The first court appearance was in the dande court and the judge was a total tosser and didn’t really listen to anything we had to say, and which was right near the office she and the other cop worked at so it was in their comfort zone and they have been in there many times before, but all the way in the city and the county court they were out of their comfort zone and we had a good female judge this time.

Well anyway back to the story... we went into the court room and sat there for awhile and we were told that the judge was going to be 30 mins late plus I was about 5 cases down aswell so my lawyer said I am going to go outside and negotiate with the coppers to take it down to 6 months loss because of the conversation he just had with them. He came back in after about 3 minutes and told me u got off with 6 months and if I wanted to still take it to trail to try to get it down further. I thought about it for awhile and was happy with 6 months because to get it down to 1 month would mean I would have to get the speed indicated down a further 15 km/h which I thought I would be pushing it and I would have to wait for about 3hrs before my case was heard coz there was a bunch of more serious cases like jail time before mine, so I just kept the 6 months. I would have liked to see the biach squirm abit on the stand when we presented them with the evidence we had but since there were 2 coppers I really only had a chance for the judge to take it down to 6 months if we managed to make the cops look as stupid as they really are.

The coppers were happy so we made the needed changes to the fine and the coppers left and gave me a glance before they left and I gave them a cheeky smile just to say (F*CK you I didnt accept the bullshit you were claiming ).

We waited in the court room for the judge, coz now we could have our case heard first coz u still have to present what just happened and we went for a lower fine appeal still because it was my first such speeding incident in 11 years of driving etc etc and the judge knocked the fine down to $300 within about 5 mins and we were out of there. Realistically in any other state in Aus I would have just got away with a slap on the wrist and a fine since it was my first offence after driving so many years but the vic legislation (another reason to hate steve bracks) says you have to loose your license for x amount over the limit no matter your record or line of work and the judge has no discression to make their own decision to make a sentence themselves.

So I am pretty happy coz for the price 1 week’s wage (lawyer fees for 2 court appearances, mates rates coz its the same guy that knows ICE performance and works on cars part time to) I got my suspension down from 6 to 12 months even tho I had to take it as far as the county court.

1 of the main reasons I took it all the way to the county court was to stick it right up the 2 coppers that spilled so much shit in their statement about the incident and to prove a point that I wasn’t going to sit their and accept their bullshit when everyone just told me to accept the 12 months loss even tho they knew it was bullshit!!!

I just hope everyone else doesn’t just sit there and accept the bullshit cops spill these days with motorists especially in Victoria.

Me :kick: Bitch Face

[riggaP]

Well done dude.

[funkymonkey]

well done son... proud of ya

[Guest INASNT]

next time she pulls over someone and tries to bullshit them i hope she remembers me

[funkymonkey]

I reckon she'll stick it to you a lot harder since you made her look bad n wasted her time.

in other news all up how much did you spend, including court proceedings and legal fees.

[Steve]

Well done. Good to see someone not willing to just lay down and get screwed - even better when they have a win:)

at a guess, the reason they didnt want it to go through is that if you managed to prove that you werent doing the alledged speed - the whole thing would have been thrown out and they would have had to start from square one again.

six months will be over in no time - for now I suppose you will be spending a fair bit of time on the track:)

[Guest INASNT]

Court cost was like $35 and lawyer fees was only $800 odd (mates rates) so roughly a weeks wage for me to save 6 months license which is quite worth it.

Luckly i didnt waste time and $$ on a expert to testify about the crapadore involved as that would have cost around $1500 for the day.

Yes i hope i wasted alot of her time and it will go down on her record as well that the fine she handed out was contested in local and county court and speed indicated was reduced from what she claimed. So if anyone else gets a ticket from a copper named Sharon Murr at Dandenong Section let me know and i will help you beat her claims

[Guest INASNT]

Well done.  Good to see someone not willing to just lay down and get screwed - even better when they have a win:)

at a guess, the reason they didnt want it to go through is that if you managed to prove that you werent doing the alledged speed - the whole thing would have been thrown out and they would have had to start from square one again.

six months will be over in no time - for now I suppose you will be spending a fair bit of time on the track:)

cheers, i am just glad its all over coz i got the ticket last year in April so it took over a year to get sorted out. I didnt loose any sleep over it so its all good.

[Roy]

Good the hear its all over and you got half the result you were looking for....

The good thing is the police that booked you are likely to think twice about going about booking someone in the same manner again. They are likely to leave it up to the highway mob unless some complete lunatic is driving like a nutbag.... so you probably have done us all a favour...checks and balances sort of thing, at the very least they wont be so non chalant about drumming up the offence.

Id say congrats on the result, but it still sux that you lose your licence for 6 months, and whilst the law is the law, and i believe in abiding by the law, doesnt change the fact legislation for traffic/driving offences is an absolute joke...I got a $60 parking fine the other night.... i could shoplift and be caught and released after a few hours of my time with no out of pocket expenses!

[Guest INASNT]

Yes the laws especially vic laws turn all motorists into criminals!!!

[GTRgeoff]

Well done mate. A moral victory at least.

I had breakfast with a VICPOL friend of mine yesterday and she was reinforcing that a lot of them hate the way the whole traffic BS makes them look like revenue raisers for the corrupt Bracks government, when all they want is to be chasing real crims.

Hope to see you at a track day as you should be able to drive there without a licence.

[GTRgeoff]

Just noticed something Roy mentioned.

Is a law constitutionally relevant if the majority of the voting population disagree or continue to break it, in which case it does not have the support of the constituancy?

Consider the number of voters/drivers who have been fined for speeding. If it were put to referendum, it would likely be overturned if you took the number of drivers infinged as a no vote to the continuing legislation. This would put the government in a position of no confidence, meaning continued imposition of the law would be corrupt.

Could be worthy of a political platform.

[Roy]

Ill man the pickets...if it all gets too hairy ill piss off back accross the border:)

Im all for some form of penalty to stop wreckless driving/speeding etc etc. I cant take credit for the concept, but if they were genuine about penalising/deterrant rather then counting on fines top up the coffers, then the system of driver bands is great.

- 10km/hr over gets a warning, 3 warnings in the space of two years you get 1 month suspended licence and some small monetary fine to cover costs associated with processing the infrignment, say $60

- 10-20km/hr over the limit, your licence is suspended for a week, after 3 suspensions in 2 years you get additional 4 week suspension, $60 fine

- 20-40km/hr over the limit, you get licence suspended for 1 month etc etc

The figures are just to give an idea of the type of system. If i got done speeding, having to use public transport is a big deterrant for me... more so then the fine, which i pay then go on my merry way.

Also the licensing system needs a lot of attention, and i think the cost to attain a drivers licence shoudl be higher, and the cost of acquiring a licence should subsidise a more involved education, training and QUALIFICATION system.

Rant, rant, rant...anyone interested in public service shoud seriously address the voters/public sentiment regardign traffic infringements.

[Guest INASNT]

The new vic laws state

45km over - 1 year loss

35-44 over - 6 months

25-34 over - 1 month

And a judge has to enforce these losses.

If you ever get pulled over by a cop car and u knew u were speeding you are seriously better off getting out of the car and before the cop writes you the speeding fine, push him or hit him because you will get away with just a warning and a smaller fine rather than loose your license.

[predator]

great work!

you da man!