All The E85 Luv But So Little United Stuff In Sydney ?

[scotty nm35]

They do self learn fast, but that wouldn't help much with cold starts as the widebands aren't very accurate initially.

Holden were still using the Continental ethanol sensors until recently, when they ditched flex fuel. I am getting a free sensor from one of the Holden design techs as he has no use for it anymore.

When I was tuned on e70 a few years ago I used to fill at the Powerplus e85 pump and add 6L or so to the mix to keep the wideband happy. It just becomes a pain in the arse, better to tune on e85 and run a little rich on the e70 if you use it.

[discopotato03]

We don't have United E85 in Hobbitville yet but there are two Eflex outlets so that's what I run . For street only I think Eflex is a little more user friendly in some ways and still better turbo tucker than 98 PULP .

A while back a few here did tests to show the power difference between E70 and E85 but I can't remember if it was that much of a difference . Someone else said recently that the knock resistance with ethanol flattens out at about 40-50% so if that's true the benefit of more must be extra evaporative charge cooling .

That aside I didn't realise the General had given up on flex fuel and it would be interesting to know why .

A .

[scotty nm35]

Because it's shit fuel for a low compression NA V8, as long as they try to make the engine compatible with 91, it will never run well on ethanol imo, not without bumping the compression or charging. Economy was down 30% with no real power gains. The bogan crowd have always been against ethanol in their fuel so don't care if it's dropped, and with Caltex trying to get out of their contract, Holden would know flex fuel is dead in the water here. Only GM US were pushing them to use it, for the green aspect.

I have done power back to back tests between the brands, there was only 4kw in it. I will be filling on eflex in Canberra soon, apparently there is an airport run coming up and I want to see what the wagon can do when I stretch her legs.

[discopotato03]

I agree , any engine built and tuned to run low octane fuel never gained anything out of better juice and went backwards on alcohol fuels consumption wise . The sad fact is that Joe Average buys the cheapest fuel he can get and the manufacturers are well aware of it .

It's beyond the scope of this thread but IMO the sooner we get a consistent lower blend like 25 to 40% the less the general public would fear ethanol . Most people I speak to , performance people aside , tell me how it burns out your seals and engine and are aghast when I tell them about using 70% for long enough to know better .

The problem is that people know that E10 is cheap and not very fuel efficient and assume if 10% is bad more must be worse . The other sad fact is that EPAs the world over wanted Ethanol (E10) for failed f**kwit green reasons and all it ever did was make in theory emissions content look a smidge cleaner .

I don't see too many manufacturers lining up to make E100 engines and as long as ULP engines are the norm you'll always get a consumption penalty burning high ethanol blend fuels . To get the best of both for volume sales setting the bar at the effective knock limit percentage means better consumption per litre and that's the thing people care most about .

[discopotato03]

Some patent stuff on Virtual Flex Fuel Sensing .

http://www.google.com/patents/US7921704

[Blackkers]

With E85, the closest United to me that sells it is Dee Why. That's still about 20-25 minutes from my place. I'm wondering how long you can keep fuel sitting around in drums before it absorbs too much water? Or if you have it sealed is it pretty much a non-issue?

I also have a 200L drum under the house I could clean out and use with a hand pump but I'm not sure how well I could seal it.

Tuner mentioned that as more water enters the fuel, the octane number drops slightly potentially causing det for an entire drum of fuel. He also mentioned something about people having rusted injectors from it in cases where the car isn't driven more than once a fortnight etc. I'm not worried about that personally just curious if anyone has heard of anything. Thanks

Edited September 16, 2013 by Blackkers

[scotty nm35]

If it's a daily it won't be an issue.

I used to use a 220L drum, I filled it with 20psi air pressure to pump the fuel out a servo style nozzle, it filled the car tank in no time. You are welcome to it if you are local, I now just use the low 20L red Bunnings drums as they are easier to transport.

It will keep fine if in a sealed container.

[Blackkers]

thanks for the offer mate i appreciate it. Im up in sydney though so its not really an option.

good to know it won't go off if sealed properly

[usmair]

North Richmond united is now also stocking e85

81-87 Bells Line of Road

[Mick_o]

Yes they do im surrounded by E85! Hahahaha I luv it!

North Richmond united is now also stocking e85

81-87 Bells Line of Road

[discopotato03]

Things are looking like changing in America with ethanol fuel blends and there is a push to introduce E15 for cars made from/after 2oo1 - or was it 2007 ? I think the corn growers want to expand ethanol production which means introducing blends greater than 10% .

Real world I think the problem is that E10 is made with ~ 90% piss grade ULP and all the 10% ethanol content does is make many engines run leaner . In other words there isn't enough ethanol in it to raise the octane rating to the point where knock sensors stay dormant and not cause the system to retard the ignition timing . More ethanol ie 15%+ can raise the octane rating of 91ULP but it seems you need a computer smart enough to compensate for the leaner AFR .

I did find a few reports OS showing how some blends in the E20-E30 range can match and sometimes very slightly better consumption compared to 91 ULP .

There was another interesting fact that the oil co's are blending the ethanol and then setting the price of blended fuels meaning they are controlling the consumer price of the ethanol content which is a rort . Ethanol is shit loads cheaper to produce than ULP but to look at the price of E70/85 on the pumps you wouldn't think so . It's a shame independents can't source bulk ethanol and buy/blend ULP at reasonable rates to reduce the end price for us . Obviously the oil co's see ethanol as a threat and given a choice there wouldn't be any in fuel at all .

I hope that E15-25 blends become available here and someone with enough of a public following can prove that there is no disadvantage in using it in cars made in the last 7-10 years . Joe average still thinks ethanol burns out the seals in his engine killing it but who's ever seen that happen ?

I think we are going to have to stand up for ethanol blends of which E10 is a waste of time . The main stream is clearly not interested in E70-85 because the cost of motoring is their main concern and at those levels there's nothing in it for them with engines optimised for 91-95 ULP . Main stream sales ultimately make or break any products success and ethanols survival will depend on govt legislation , read green slime garbage , and possibly low to mid percentage blends if they are cost effective for Joe average .

[Blackkers]

Quick question regarding "e85". Is it always going to be the same amount of ethanol? I've read that you can get varying degrees of ethanol content from the same supplier. I know Shell sells E70 and United sells E85 I'm talking variance within the brand. Also if I ask the guy at the counter is there any chance he would know the exact content?

I'd only really want to know when tuning initially so that I don't tune on E70 thinking its E85 then one day run E90. I know an ethanol tune isn't particularly sensitive and I've got a wideband for security but I'd still rather know than find out later.

Also if I tune on E85 then fill up with shell E70, yes rich is safe but won't I potentially lose some knock protection? or does the tuner account for this and bring timing back from the edge slightly?

[scotty nm35]

Quick question regarding "e85". Is it always going to be the same amount of ethanol? I've read that you can get varying degrees of ethanol content from the same supplier. I know Shell sells E70 and United sells E85 I'm talking variance within the brand. Also if I ask the guy at the counter is there any chance he would know the exact content?

I'd only really want to know when tuning initially so that I don't tune on E70 thinking its E85 then one day run E90. I know an ethanol tune isn't particularly sensitive and I've got a wideband for security but I'd still rather know than find out later.

Also if I tune on E85 then fill up with shell E70, yes rich is safe but won't I potentially lose some knock protection? or does the tuner account for this and bring timing back from the edge slightly?

Shell sells e85 now?

Get a tune on United, then run whatever you like. Safe as houses.

[Blackkers]

Am I thinking caltex or shell? Who other than united sells a high ethanol content fuel in Sydney? and is it essentially the same as united e85?

I can't wait to tune for e85 just have to sort out a solid intake, bigger injectors, fuel pump then i'll be knocking the tuners door down

Edited October 2, 2013 by Blackkers

[Piggaz]

It's Caltex. Their brew hovers around E70.

[Kane_R32]

United have brought out and app that lets uses your location to tell you the closest service stations and the cost for the day, and of course which fuels they have on site...

I searched "united" in the app store..

Happy Days

[scotty nm35]

Not all sites are on it though. Perhaps they don't update it regularly?

[Kane_R32]

Yeah could be a work in progress? Maybe they will see alot of downloads soon and update more info?

[whizzn]

So my understanding of this thread is that this fuel isn't recommended for non daily driven cars?

My cars lucky to be driven once a month sometimes, would this cause the fuel to go off?

[Ben C34]

So my understanding of this thread is that this fuel isn't recommended for non daily driven cars?

My cars lucky to be driven once a month sometimes, would this cause the fuel to go off?

huh? Heaps of track and drift cars run it.

Edited October 9, 2013 by superben