Ever Fought A Speeding Fine In Victoria? Here's My Day In Court:

[Little]

What an intense day i had yesterday. Came home exhausted and went to sleep. It's taken me about 24 hours to get my head around really what happened; as the pressure in the court room is so overbearing it tends to shut your mind down a bit.... Which is what a court room is designed to do. They put you on edge.

I can imagine this might be quite a hot topic... I encourage fellow motorists to share their experiences and feelings on how we are policed in Victoria?

Try to use something to back up your opinions however. We need coherent thought.

Before i get started; Has anybody been in at the Geelong Magistrates court? If so; have you dealt with the police prosecutor for the traffic offences? frizzy haired Blond chick? perhaps early 30's?

I think she is perhaps the most devious police officer i have ever met. Although she's so devious... i'm not even sure if she is!?

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I was riding a the back of a motorcycle convoy last year, NYE. Great ocean road.

I'm on a 250cc; other mates have got 1000's and 600's. They took off from a left turn at a roundabout.

I had to give way to a car; then i took off after them; not particularly hard; i knew wasn't going to be able to catch em.

About 300m down the road i became aware of "that" big scary shape looming behind me.

Divvy van; ignored me; no sirens no handsignals; overtook me at the wrong side of the road; chased down the two in front.

I found them further down the road; pulled over.

I Pulled up where they had nabbed em;

an officer me a fine for going 26km/h over.

They issued four fines. All for going the same speed.

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Bullshit. Officer.

So i went through our lovely court system where they try repeatedly to intimidate you into pleading guilty. I believe we are one of the few states where we have "pre hearings"

A pre hearing is basically where the prosecution throws as much evidence as they can at you in such a way to catch you off guard and make you plead guilty.

And they did try.

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Court day:

After five hours i got to have my case.

This is where i met miss frizzy hair police prosecutor. Just before it starts she takes me out the court room ( i was sat quietly in the back) and tells me what is going to happen. She briefly goes over the police report (which a copy is given to you if you request and you MUST request or else you'll get your arse kicked) and suggests that you plead guilty.

The police report stated that the police had tailed close behind me but not specified when or where and matched my speed using the digital speedo on the divvy van. She told me this again.

she then produced further evidence that was not in the police report.

This was:

-a calibration certificate for the Divvy vans speedo

-a google maps drawings with the officer(s) "following distance"

She informed me the police had gotten their following distance by using a melways and worked it out to be 800m.

I had some time talking to a wise legal practicioner and he told me without a doubt that with this kind of shit you are meant to be told 14 days prior to court. Not an hour before it starts. It put me off guard and i had to frantically change my defence.

Ladys and gents i firmly believe this is deliberate.

Onward to the court room.

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So i'm sat with a microphone in my face with the magistrate about two meters above my head and about 6 coppers in the room staring at me.

First up; copper#1 gets in the stand and goes through what happened from his perspective and then miss frizzy hair prosecution solidifies his case by confirming photos; and google maps; etc etc.

They got on to the calibration certificate; and like in the movies i stated like an idiot "objection your honor!"

Frizzy hair looked like she wanted to stab me and the magistrate was clearly bemused kind of watching me with his head to one side.

"Your honor i cannot question the validity of this certificate but i believe evidence like this should be in the police report; or i am at least to be given 14 days notice. This was made clear to me an hour ago before court. To some extent this is an ambushing tactic by the prosecution and i request it be struck out"

Didn't work...

he said "I will allow it".

Now Smug frizzy hair continues to crucify me for the next ten mins.

Then i got to ask questions.

First up i thanked him for his time and he just kinda glared into my skull.

Some of the important questions i asked:

Officer you allege that all bikes were no more than 10 meters apart; from the front of the first to the tail of the last. Is this correct?

yes.

Officer; i clearly remember stopping to give way to a vehicle at the roundabout. This split the formation. Do you recall?

no.

Officer can you recall that the bikes were different models?

frizzy hair interrupted and they wouldn't answer this question.

Officer my bike was not quick enough to keep up with the others after they took off. I was well behind. I put it to you that your memory is innacurate. How do you respond?

(something something i do not believe this is true)

Officer i put it to you that you never followed me for 800m; and never got an accurate speed reading

yes we did.

officer i put it to you that you came screaming up behind me; overtook on the wrong side of the road; and were chasing the bikes in front.

You were riding in tight; staggered formation and we pulled over the front rider yes.

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Guys... I swear to you. This guy is bullshitting under oath.

We were never in any staggered formation and the 1000cc was at least... AT LEAST 300meters in front.

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Finally:

"Officer did you have your sirens on when you were behind me?"

I do not believe so no.

Officer again i allege you overtook me chasing the bike in front. Did you motion for me to pull over?

uuuuhhh we activated our sirens and motioned for the bikes to pull over in the car park-

Officer....... Did you.......... Motion for me to pull over?

...... No

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Continuing typing.....

Edited November 22, 2012 by Little

[Little]

I then asked him to reproduce his notebook from the day; which the clerk then gave to me. Ha! I had no idea what to do with it at this point. But i gained a wind of inspiration and realised what i could do with it

Officer is there any mention of a follow distance in this book?

.... No.

No further questions your honor.

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The other officer from the day (a chick) went through the same spiel in the witness stand The only exeption being she

clearly stated that she

"followed us for 800m and the speedo consistantly said 75k/h"

Officer; do you think it is a bit rich to suggest; that; down a narrow; twisted; inclined road. That for 800metersl you maintained an EXACT reading of 75km/h?

(Angrily) "No! Not at all. Motorbikes are fast"

I got nothing more out of that chick she denied everything i asked.

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It was then my turn to get in the box; although; my favorite miss frizzy hair told me that i could say nothing; if i so chose to.

I said to the magistrate:

Your honor ; as confirmed by officer ********; on the date; in his notebook; or in the police report; there was no mention of any follow distance stated.

This is because they Didn't. ( Frizzy hair makes noise and there are 6 policemen glaring at me) They couldn't. They didn't have time. They were chasing the superbike in front.

They had to go back and calculate their follow distance using a laser and a Melway yesterday!!!

To me this is a clear indication they had procedures to follow and they didn't. They chased. And they were chasing the bikes well out in front. Not ten meters; at least a hundred.

The testimony that i maintained exactly 75 down barwon heads road is laughable as it is not a straight road.

Your honor; that is all.

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The magistrate asked if the prosecution would like to cross examine me; and she said no ?????

He then told me to sit down; then he took over and gave his verdict.... bearing in mind we're in Victoria.... hehe; what do you think he said?

[Birds]

I remember you posting up about the motorbike incident a while ago...

So what was the verdict?!

[htial]

He's stringing us along Birds.

[Birds]

This better not be one of those Law And Order episodes where they cut to credits before the verdict is read...he actually had my attention for this story...

[blah_blah]

[htial]

Hahaha...

[OYEAHA]

Ahhh it's real life law and order

[gtsttrk]

Yeah I remember when you posted this a while ago too!

[Odium]

Not guilty, or he wouldn't be posting here to tell us all about how he wasted a day.

The OP had a good approach to it, not getting taken over by the pressure of it all, and managed to disprove some of the "facts/evidence" that was put down... Or at least make the magistrate doubt that they followed procedure to the letter...

[Little]

Lol it's not a Sopranos ending i'll spill it; I justify my hesitation because As soon as I explain what happened i reckon we'll get experts shouting

"Yeh Duh of course X happened because of Y"

Also i think telling it from my perspective up to this point where i'd been rattled by the prosecutor; and didn't have all the facts;

also helps you understand what a mindf**k i was in.

Was just hoping for some speculation before the benefit of hindsight. I'll post in a bit

[R-PWR]

Probably Guilty, and hey if not guilty he would probably have the cops waiting outside his place to defect him daily.

[blah_blah]

[Birds]

OP is an attention whore, trying to exploit his pub story of success, or get his money's worth for the massive fine he had to pay.

[JadGTST33]

Got me itchin for the next episode!

[Birds]

Got me itchin for the next episode!

episode!

episode!

episode!

HOLD UP

HEYYYYYYY

[Little]

So i finished my speech a little bit early and left out a paragraph that said:

"Your honor given my reasonable demeanor and my continued denial of the charge i respectfully request the charge be dismissed"

I left it out because the prosecution kept interrupting me ( 3 times ) being all frustrated and telling me to slow down and acting as if everything i was saying was crap.

I thought that paragraph wasn't neccesary and my head was on fire so i finished on "your honor that is all"

the magistrate asked frizzy hair if she'd like to cross examine. She said No.

This was totally unexpected and weird because she'd hinted that she would grill me if i got in the stand.

Then Frizzy hair then asked the magistrate if HE would like to ask any questions. He thought for about 15 seconds ( an eternity for me ) and then said No!

"Return to your seat; i am going to deliver my verdict and it is a very simple verdict with a very simple decision; and i will explain to you why"

I sat down.

"At no point today; although you denied it in the police report; have you said that you were not speeding. I find it very hard to believe that you would come here to deny a speeding fine and not say "I was not speeding" I therefore find that the prosecutions evidence stands; this case has turned out to be a waste of time; you have taken two police officers off the road today for no good reason."

(Guys note that when i questioned the male officer "Officer i have come here today to protest my innocence; do you recall that i immediately told you that i was not speeding ? he said yes)

the magistrate paused for a while and was clearly looking through a whole bunch of stuff on his pc.

"I am going to offer you an undertaking with conditions. You have no prior convictions or offenses; however I suggest you listen carefully to the requirements before accepting."

Firstly you will make a $200 donation (Less than $280 fine) to the local CFA where the offense took place. (he then started me in the eyes when he said this:) this way; your money will NOT be going to the goverment to spend on..... (he kind of waved his hands trailed off and stared into space)

I pretty much died at this point. How the f**k was this guy in my head?

"You have four months with which to pay this and you must provide a reciept to the court within this time or else you will be summoned back here."

(stopped staring at me) "The second condition is that you will agree not to appear in court again for another 12 months if you do the fine will be reimposed"

"Do you accept the conditions of the undertaking?"

f**king- Oath your honor.

He basically then told me to leave. Did not get any tone or any emotion from the man.

It took me ages to work out just what the f**k had happened....

On the drive back from Geelong i was breaking out into laughter and but then going all serious face. Over and over. Because i can't work out if I won or not?

I can try and compare it to recieving fellatio whilst being kicked in the head at the same time. I'm not quite sure how i feel about the whole thing.

I called my lawyer and asked him what he thought and he said it was very complicated and very political indeed...

[htial]

I think we all feel the same way right now...

[Birds]

Basically, instead of being f**ked by the state government, you got f**ked by the local government. They were fighting over who got your money.

If you got no points out of it, I'd consider it a win, because demerit points are kind of priceless. Basically, it was your word against theirs and the court divided it down the middle...you're in a better position than you were before, so take it as a victory. Life is unfair sometimes!

[W0rp3D]

What you also agreed to is that you not appear in court again, in translation this could be taken to mean that you will not contest another fine (even tho your innocent) for 12 months..........